Recessed box for Wall mounted light

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sceepe

sceepe

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I recently saw an installation of an exterior light with no recessed box. Just conduit stubed out with excess wire hanging out. Apparently the plan was to mount fixture to the wall over the conduit somehow secure the conduit to the fixture and splice the wires in the fixture.

Question: is this per code? I said no based on 410.28 which states that:
No unnecessary splices or taps shall be made within or on a luminaire. However, this may be a stretch. Aanybody got a better code reference to hang my hard hat?

Also, there a plenty of surface mounted fixtures that have conduit knockouts. If they have a knockout are they designed to be installed in this way or do they have to have box for splices?
 
Wouldn`t it have to be installed as it was listed UL.....If the listing has a box one is required if not listed that way then no box required.I have seen identical vanity strips from 2 manufacturers one required a box the other didn`t.Just goes to show those papers that come with the stuff we install isn`t packing material.:)
 
there are several fixtures that use threaded fittings as part of there design,and can be supported by rigid or IMC 314.23 (f) exception no.2. But it is clear that the conduit be "wrench tight" to the box or wiring enclosure, or hubs identified for the purpose. Is this comercial or residential?
 
If it has 1/2 KO it likely was intended to be used .Unless something says not to make splice in fixture i am fine with it.We do this on many flor.stips so why is this differant .
 
Jim just because the fixture has a 1/2 in. ko,doesn`t mean a box is not required.It has to be listed as not requiring a box and the fixture itself has to be listed as the junction point.
I know of 2 identical from the outside vanity strips,one has only a 1/2 in. KO the other has a 1/2 in. ko and provisions to mount a box.The manufacturers instructions show a box on the one with the provisions for them.Our guys were installing these as they had been with a hitlock connector as they had been all the others.An inspector just happened to see the paperwork from one and low and behold red tag no box as per manufacturers instructions.

Easy fix though feed a pancake box and mount it on the fixture then mount the fixture to the drywall.No need to mount the pancake box but did have to cut some drywall to make it mount flush.
 
allenwayne said:
Jim just because the fixture has a 1/2 in. ko,doesn`t mean a box is not required.It has to be listed as not requiring a box and the fixture itself has to be listed as the junction point.
I know of 2 identical from the outside vanity strips,one has only a 1/2 in. KO the other has a 1/2 in. ko and provisions to mount a box.The manufacturers instructions show a box on the one with the provisions for them.Our guys were installing these as they had been with a hitlock connector as they had been all the others.An inspector just happened to see the paperwork from one and low and behold red tag no box as per manufacturers instructions.

Easy fix though feed a pancake box and mount it on the fixture then mount the fixture to the drywall.No need to mount the pancake box but did have to cut some drywall to make it mount flush.
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So using an unmounted box is OK but entering the cable into the fixture isn't? Isn't that just trading one violation for another?
 
Trevor why, the manufacturers instructions only showed that a junction box be installed behind the fixture.There was nothing that showed the box being mounted.

Look at 314.27 A.There is no provision that the box actually be mounted only that the box (may be attached)So if the fixture is required to have a box and the fixture is designed to be attached to the drywall by screws independant of the box why would you have to mount both the box and the fixture.
 
allenwayne said:
Trevor why, the manufacturers instructions only showed that a junction box be installed behind the fixture.There was nothing that showed the box being mounted.

Look at 314.27 A.There is no provision that the box actually be mounted only that the box (may be attached)So if the fixture is required to have a box and the fixture is designed to be attached to the drywall by screws independant of the box why would you have to mount both the box and the fixture.
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314.23 requires that boxes be supported by any of the methods mentioned in (A) through (H). I do not see using the fixture as a support for the box listed there.
 
I`m not the devil just his advocate..... This is what the inspectors wanted,we stub on rough in and these fixtures required a box.They are the ones that said mount a pancake to the strip light since they are designed to be mounted independant of the box.All we have to do is mount a pancake box to the fixture and secure the fixture as the manufacturer listed it.
 
allenwayne said:
All we have to do is mount a pancake box to the fixture and secure the fixture as the manufacturer listed it.
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You do that for exterior lights?

The OP was asking about exterior light.
 
allenwayne said:
I`m not the devil just his advocate..... This is what the inspectors wanted,we stub on rough in and these fixtures required a box.They are the ones that said mount a pancake to the strip light since they are designed to be mounted independant of the box.All we have to do is mount a pancake box to the fixture and secure the fixture as the manufacturer listed it.
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That's fine, but I don't see how it's any better than making a 1/2" KO in the back of the fixture and entering the cable. Just my opinion. Either way you've created a violation.
 
sceepe said:
I recently saw an installation of an exterior light with no recessed box. Just conduit stubed out with excess wire hanging out.
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You can do this with some brands of wallpacks. Perhaps it was for going into a Red Dot box that wasn't installed yet?
 
infinity said:
That's fine, but I don't see how it's any better than making a 1/2" KO in the back of the fixture and entering the cable. Just my opinion. Either way you've created a violation.
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I`m not talking about making a 1/2 in hole in the back of a vanity strip.What i am saying id that there are manufacturers that have the fixture listed with a box behind it.Some just have a 1/2 in KO and list the fixture as the junction.But others list the fixture as requireing a box.

Progress lighting is one of those that shows a box installed and the fixture has independant means to mount the fixture.
 
allenwayne said:
I`m not talking about making a 1/2 in hole in the back of a vanity strip.What i am saying id that there are manufacturers that have the fixture listed with a box behind it.Some just have a 1/2 in KO and list the fixture as the junction.But others list the fixture as requireing a box.

Progress lighting is one of those that shows a box installed and the fixture has independant means to mount the fixture.
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I'm talking about a fixture that requires a box. If the box is only mounted to the fixture you have a violation. If you make your own KO and enter only the cable, you still have a violation of the listing. Either way you have a violation. I don't see how one way is any better than the other.
 
I agree that if the sole means of mounting the fixture is the box then using a box that is not mounted is a violation and impracticle.What this boils down to is..... The manufacturers installation instructions.If they are listed with a box and the box isn`t installed that is the violation.You can`t make a 1/2 ko in a fixture unless the manufacturer lists the fixture as being suitable for this type of installation.
 
I'd say go through the manufacturer's instructions ~ 110.3 (B). If the instructions allow it, so be it. I've used GRC nipples through tip-up walls with the pipe stubbed out of the back of the box into the high bay indoors.
 
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