Recessed lights Airtight? Energy code NJ

[Jerseydaze]

OK I'm a little mixed up on when you have to use airtight cans in a home.Is it any IC have to be air tight ?I have a customer who is insulating a basement ceiling for sound I'm not sure if I can use NON Icat cans and move the insulation .I will have to use short 6" cans so theres a difference in cost.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't believe you would need air tight cans between floors where the area above and below is heated.

 

[infinity]

I agree with Dennis in a basement you can use regular old downlights. If you use them with insulation then you will need to leave 3" of airspace around each fixture. Depending on how many lights you have it might defeat the purpose of installing the insulation in the first place.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Here in CA you have to use AT rated cans between conditioned and unconditioned space. Basically ceiling to attic.

 

[Nium]

. If you use them with insulation then you will need to leave 3" of airspace around each fixture.

I guess it depends on which fixture is being used but the Lightolier 1100IC instructions and UL listing say that it can be used in direct contact with insulation, not that the insulation needs to be 3" away from the sides of the can.

http://www.lightolier.com/MKACatinstr/IS_1000IC.PDFhttp://www.lightolier.com/MKA Catinstr/IS_1000IC.PDF

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Here in CA you have to use AT rated cans between conditioned and unconditioned space. Basically ceiling to attic.

This is the same terminology used in NYS. The "Building Envelope" is another phrase used.

 

[infinity]

I guess it depends on which fixture is being used but the Lightolier 1100IC instructions and UL listing say that it can be used in direct contact with insulation, not that the insulation needs to be 3" away from the sides of the can.

http://www.lightolier.com/MKACatinstr/IS_1000IC.PDF

Those Lightolier's are IC rated so they can be in direct contact with insulation . I was referring to the regular fixtures that are not IC rated. Those non-IC can still be used in a basement but the insulation cannot be within 3". I would just an IC rated fixture and then you wouldn't need to worry about the insulation.

 

[Speedskater]

Neither can nor insulation is very effective for reducing sound transmission. Typically sheet-rock boxes (with caulked joints) are built behind the cans.

 

[goldstar]

I agree with Dennis in a basement you can use regular old downlights. If you use them with insulation then you will need to leave 3" of airspace around each fixture. Depending on how many lights you have it might defeat the purpose of installing the insulation in the first place.

Rob, I agree with you but this is a classic scenario where some inspectors believe that if there's insulation present you have to use IC rated cans. The job gets delayed, calls are made to the DCA, letters back and forth, etc.

BTW, I've found that most supply houses are now only stocking IC-AT cans instead of just IC rated. The cost isn't that much of a difference and stocking both becomes impractical.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

BTW, I've found that most supply houses are now only stocking IC-AT cans instead of just IC rated. The cost isn't that much of a difference and stocking both becomes impractical.

And...
It helps the contractor who is not sure which fixture to install, from having to make a decision.

 

[infinity]

Rob, I agree with you but this is a classic scenario where some inspectors believe that if there's insulation present you have to use IC rated cans. The job gets delayed, calls are made to the DCA, letters back and forth, etc.

BTW, I've found that most supply houses are now only stocking IC-AT cans instead of just IC rated. The cost isn't that much of a difference and stocking both becomes impractical.

You might be correct about the inspectors making a mistake and holding up the job, but we know that if you follow the 3" requirement of the manufacturer then the installation is code compliant. As I said It would just use IC cans.

 

[Teaspoon]

I like to use IC rated cans through out the house. Then the insulation coverage is not an Issue.Before I started useing all IC rated cans . I have had to go back in after Insulation was installed and rake the Insulation away from the cans. Even when I had made it clear that these cans the customer wanted use could not be covered with Insulation.So i make a point now at the start of the job to inform the customer that all cans must be IC rated.

 

[infinity]

I like to use IC rated cans through out the house. Then the insulation coverage is not an Issue.Before I started useing all IC rated cans . I have had to go back in after Insulation was installed and rake the Insulation away from the cans. Even when I had made it clear that these cans the customer wanted use could not be covered with Insulation.So i make a point now at the start of the job to inform the customer that all cans must be IC rated.

It's likely that if you were using non-IC cans in areas with an attic above that you would have a problem with violating a building energy code. Around here you can no longer us non-IC cans in those areas even if the customer preferred them.

 

[cowboyjwc]

You might be correct about the inspectors making a mistake and holding up the job, but we know that if you follow the 3" requirement of the manufacturer then the installation is code compliant. As I said It would just use IC cans.

Kind of depends where you are, here in CA if there is insulation you must use an IC/AT can.

 

[infinity]

Kind of depends where you are, here in CA if there is insulation you must use an IC/AT can.

Even in a basement where the insulation is used for some reason not required by any codes?

 

[cowboyjwc]

Even in a basement where the insulation is used for some reason not required by any codes?

Seems kind of silly to put in insulation for sound if you just going to be putting a bunch of 1' holes in it.

You would be correct though. CA Energy Code: luminaires recessed in insulated ceilings must be IC rated and have a gasket or caulking between the housing and ceiling to prevent the flow of heated or cooled air between conditioned and unconditioned spaces.

So if the basement was conditioned space then you would not need it, but if the basement was unconditioned space, well if it was unconditioned we would have required the lid to be insulated anyways so that's sort of a moot point.