Recessed or surface ?

[Greentagger]

Noting lately low profiled LED down lights that appear to be recessed. They actually mount to a j box. In regards to clearances in clothes closets, should these be treated as a recessed with 6”, or a surface mount requiring 12“? Thanks.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It is a surface mount so IMO it is what it is....LOL

 

[Little Bill]

These rules were written for incandescent bulbs IMO. They should reconsider or add for LED. There is no filament that would be exposed so I don't think the distances should be as great for them vs incandescent.

 

[James L]

LED disk lights can fasten into a recessed light as well as 8B. So imo they count as recessed lights

 

[infinity]

If it mounts to a junction box that is flush with the ceiling it is not a recessed fixture.

 

[James L]

If it mounts to a junction box that is flush with the ceiling it is not a recessed fixture.

The driver recesses, just like every other recessed LED trim

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The driver recesses, just like every other recessed LED trim

It is still a surface mounted fixture. That is almost like saying the wires from the fixture are recessed.

 

[James L]

It is still a surface mounted fixture. That is almost like saying the wires from the fixture are recessed.

But they aren't surface mounted. They are flush mounted

 

[gadfly56]

But they aren't surface mounted. They are flush mounted

It might help if you provide a picture of the fixture you are thinking of. Or if the OP would provide the same.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

But they aren't surface mounted. They are flush mounted

I don't know what they call it but the fixture is below the ceiling so it cannot be flush mounted. The ones I have seen have the driver inside the fixture also.

 

[James L]

I don't know what they call it but the fixture is below the ceiling so it cannot be flush mounted. The ones I have seen have the driver inside the fixture also.

That's like saying a flush mounted receptacle isn't flush mounted because the yoke sits on the front of the drywall and the cover plate sits on the front of the drywall.

But we know that's not what a surface mounted receptacle is. Why should a surface mounted light be any different?

 

[James L]

It might help if you provide a picture of the fixture you are thinking of. Or if the OP would provide the same.

https://smile.amazon.com/Dimmable-LED-Recessed-Replacement-UL-Listed/dp/B01NBW4AW3/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=2lt7uz29l3AnlI2EI0cvKA&hsa_cr_id=9628633900901&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0

 

[Dennis Alwon]

https://smile.amazon.com/Dimmable-LED-Recessed-Replacement-UL-Listed/dp/B01NBW4AW3/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&aaxitk=2lt7uz29l3AnlI2EI0cvKA&hsa_cr_id=9628633900901&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_0

Well that one says it can install in a recessed can so in a recessed can it is considered recessed but not otherwise-- sounds nuts. My bet is that most authority having jurisdiction's would consider it recessed.

This section may need re-writing as the issue with recessed was that the light was inside the can. Now the light is LED and outside the can. Probably something that wasn't looked at

 

[James L]

Well that one says it can install in a recessed can so in a recessed can it is considered recessed but not otherwise-- sounds nuts. My bet is that most authority having jurisdiction's would consider it recessed.

This section may need re-writing as the issue with recessed was that the light was inside the can. Now the light is LED and outside the can. Probably something that wasn't looked at

I agree. I think if there's a choice between calling it recessed or surface mounted, we have to go with recessed

There are definitely configurations that run roughshod over the code the way it's written

 

[Chamuit]

The description provided by the manufacturer (?) says that it is a low profile fixture.

 

[gadfly56]

Well that one says it can install in a recessed can so in a recessed can it is considered recessed but not otherwise-- sounds nuts. My bet is that most authority having jurisdiction's would consider it recessed.

This section may need re-writing as the issue with recessed was that the light was inside the can. Now the light is LED and outside the can. Probably something that wasn't looked at

Please note that the end result is the same with respect to the profile of the lens and guts relative to the surface of the ceiling. "Inside the can" doesn't really mean inside the can. If you take a straight edge and run it across the ceiling over the fixture and hit anything other than trim, it seems to me that it is, at best, semi-flush.

 

[mwm1752]

It is a trim part just a a surface luminaire is a trim part. if you use a recess can then it is a recess trim - if you use a mounted j box then it is a surface mounted trim. I do not make the rules just follow them. If you are within 12" then insert a recess to make compliant. To complain about the obvious of same trim different clearances is a NEC issue to be resolved not the inspectors right to choose. they make a regress that look exactly the same & has its own spring mounts that do not need a box or recess can - 6" clearances due to its description

 

[mwm1752]

These rules were written for incandescent bulbs IMO. They should reconsider or add for LED. There is no filament that would be exposed so I don't think the distances should be as great for them vs incandescent.

I agree, seems like they should be in the same category as a flourscent fixture - but they are not

 

[James L]

If you take a straight edge and run it across the ceiling over the fixture and hit anything other than trim, it seems to me that it is, at best, semi-flush.

But if you use that same litmus test at a flush mounted toggle switch, you can hit more than the trim. And it's not semi flush

 

[gadfly56]

It is a trim part just a a surface luminaire is a trim part. if you use a recess can then it is a recess trim - if you use a mounted j box then it is a surface mounted trim. I do not make the rules just follow them. If you are within 12" then insert a recess to make compliant. To complain about the obvious of same trim different clearances is a NEC issue to be resolved not the inspectors right to choose. they make a regress that look exactly the same & has its own spring mounts that do not need a box or recess can - 6" clearances due to its description

The glowy-make-light part is not recessed. It is proud of the ceiling. I have recessed cans in my kitchen. The bulbs are clearly not below the surface of the ceiling. The white plastic piece from the link in post #12 is not a trim, it is the luminaire. What am I missing?