Reduce By One Set??

Alwayslearningelec

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Occupation
Estimator
They are calling for (9) sets of 3 #500's from a 3000A 480v breaker to feed a 480v 3000A main breaker board. Distance is 480'.

I'm thinking I can get away with 8 sets and still be under 3% VD. Thinking about sending RFI asking to reduce by one set of my calcs are correct.


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Maybe a more important question is, why? As in why do you want to take this risk and accept responsibility for the potential issues if you are wrong? I mean, sure, you are going to send an RFI and they are going to say yea or nay, but in reality if they approve it and it turns out to be wrong, your reputation has been damaged because you instigated it. So what's YOUR reason for wanting to take on that risk?
 
Maybe a more important question is, why? As in why do you want to take this risk and accept responsibility for the potential issues if you are wrong? I mean, sure, you are going to send an RFI and they are going to say yea or nay, but in reality if they approve it and it turns out to be wrong, your reputation has been damaged because you instigated it. So what's YOUR reason for wanting to take on that risk?
Good point
 
I think that it is important to think about the answer to @Jraef 's question, because I don't think his point was that you _shouldn't_ send in the RFI because of the risk, but rather that you should evaluate _why_ you might want to take the risk.

Will it put money in your pocket? Enhance your reputation for saving your employer money? Protect the environment by saving on un-needed materials? Make you feel good because you aren't wasting? Answer what is your motive and then decide if it is worth the risk. It might very well be.

Additional points:

You are talking about $25K of wire, but in a job where $25K is a small fraction of the total (1/9 of the wire cost, plus all the raceways, labor....). Does 8 vs 9 sets make a differences in any of the other equipment (conductor termination points, conduit layout, such that 9 sets might be cheaper to install even though the wire is more expensive?

What assumptions did you use in your voltage drop calculation? Not just current, but power factor, conduit type, and conductor temperature. While I expect the voltage drop to be acceptable with real values for those aspects of the install, if I pick the worst case combination (75C conductor temperature, steel conduit, PF 1, 3000A) then voltage drop (according to the southwire calculator) comes to 3.04%; maybe that worst case calculation is what drove 9 sets rather than 8.
 
I had one project where the contractor valued engineered the circuit run by reducing a conductor. The new impedance was high enough that the feeder breaker was no longer operating in its Instantaneous region resulting in an arc flash energy of <40cal/cm^2.

I am not saying don't ask for the change, just understand some engineers do have a reason for their design.
 
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