Redundant Grounding

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POWER_PIG

POWER_PIG

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Hi all!
IM confused (again) this time concerning redundant grounding in patient health care facilities. IM not sure if this ground is req'd for patient safety or elctro-magnetic interfrerence or what. The name itself makes me wonder why it's needed or required. Any help on this matter would be appreciated.
 
POWER_PIG said:
Hi all!
IM confused (again) this time concerning redundant grounding in patient health care facilities. IM not sure if this ground is req'd for patient safety or elctro-magnetic interfrerence or what. The name itself makes me wonder why it's needed or required. Any help on this matter would be appreciated.
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this is for patient safety mostly. Ive been working at the hospital for a while and even in those cases they upsize the ground and make it a #10 too.
 
I actually believe it is for both..in the patient rooms and stuff it is mainly for the workers and patients..But in the operating rooms and testing rooms it is mainly for the equipment..that is why they have isolated transformers and systems..So if a hospital pro chimes in we will know for sure and there are a couple of people here who actually have designed some hospital layouts but I forget who they are..
 
Pictorial example of HCFC type AC cable in an article 517 location:

hcfcarticle517.jpg
 
intresting

intresting

Ok, If its for added patient safety then how did that come to be? I mean why just in health care facilities? I don't understand what makes laying on a bed getting probed and prodded with medical instruments is anymore dangerous than a child wrapping their mouths around an electric water cooler at the park?
btw: thanks all for your thoughts / photos
 
I don't know when or how but part of the reason is some of the materials used are very flamable..like oxygen and the anesthesiology gases to name a few..so no sparks please of any type..that is also why they have them green operating suits..So when you are being operated on the gas does not impregnate itself in the fabric cloth of the operating staff..these are just to name a few of the hazards..
 
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Ahhhh!!

Ahhhh!!

Ok, now that makes sence to me. I never thought of explosive gasses or chemicals in the mix. I knew I was missing something, just did not know what. I really enjoy this forum, and always learn something everytime Im here
Thanks again, for all yall's help
 
POWER_PIG said:
Ok, If its for added patient safety then how did that come to be? I mean why just in health care facilities? I don't understand what makes laying on a bed getting probed and prodded with medical instruments
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You just stumbled on it.These probes make direct contact and lessen the bodies natural ohmic resistance.Any current flow is now on the superhighway to the heart.ie.electrical shock directly to the heart etc.
 
I don't know when or how but part of the reason is some of the materials used are very flamable..like oxygen and the anesthesiology gases to name a few.
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Oxygen is not a flammable gas and I don't think there has been any flammable anesthetic gases used in the US for a few decades.
 
I just checked it out..I can see the government is on top of this issue..check out this info I got from these resources. I reprented a list of the chemicals they use..
What are the different types of cryogenic liquids?
Each cryogenic liquid has its own specific properties but most cryogenic liquids can be placed into one of three groups:

Inert Gases: Inert gases do not react chemically to any great extent. They do not burn or support combustion. Examples of this group are nitrogen, helium, neon, argon and krypton.

Flammable Gases: Some cryogenic liquids produce a gas that can burn in air. The most common examples are hydrogen, methane and liquefied natural gas.

Oxygen: Many materials considered as non-combustible can burn in the presence of liquid oxygen. Organic materials can react explosively with liquid oxygen. The hazards and handling precautions of liquid oxygen must therefore be considered separately from other cryogenic liquids.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/wasteanestheticgases/

http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/anestheticgases/index.html

aesthetic Gases: Guidelines for Workplace Exposures
B. GENERAL INFORMATION Surgical inhalation anesthesia was first used in the United States when diethyl ether was administered to a patient in 1842. Since then, many chemical compounds have been used to anesthetize patients to keep them free from pain during surgical procedures. Many anesthetic agents such as diethyl ether, divinyl ether, cyclopropane, and ethylene, were effective in their intended use but posed a fire and explosion risk in the presence of a sufficient oxygen supply and an ignition source such as a spark from static electricity or electrical equipment. In the 1950s, developments in chlorofluorocarbon chemistry produced halogenated, nonflammable, volatile agents that replaced the explosive agents. More than 20 years ago the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Hospitals (JCAH) in its"Accreditation Manual for Hospitals" prohibited the use of flammable anesthetic agents in all anesthetizing locations. Table 1 lists inhaled anesthetic agents that have been used in the past and those that are currently in use.
Table 1. Inhaled Anesthetic Agents Generic or
chemical name Commercial name Year of introduction Currently in use?
Diethyl ether Ether 1842 No
Nitrous oxide Nitrous oxide 1844 Yes
Chloroform Chloroform 1847 No
Cyclopropane Cyclopropane 1933 No
Trichloroethylene Trilene? 1934 No
Fluroxene Fluoromar? 1954 No
Halothane Fluothane? 1956 Yes
Methoxyflurane Penthrane? 1960 Infrequently
Enflurane Ethrane? 1974 Yes
Isoflurane Forane? 1980 Yes
Desflurane Suprane? 1992 Yes
Sevoflurane Ultane? 1995 Yes

This is not electrical but does add to discussion..so if the redundent grounding is not to control the electrical asserbation of these chemicals what is it for..(You Know prevent a spark)
 
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In the operating rooms that I have wired they used isolation xformers so that the voltages have no ground reference. They also had ground detection systems which would set off an alarm if something got grounded. There was also a grounding point where everything that needed to get grounded did so at the same potential. Like laproscopic tools for cutting or grabing they had little attatchments for a ground wire to ground it to the ground panel like a bannana pluginterminal. It is my understanding that once you penetrate the skin blood and human tissue becomes very conductive and the slightist stray voltage on an operating table can be lethal.
 
My father has been in and out of hospitals for the last 3 years, mostly due to heart ailments.
Once you see how they stick and prod a person with very invasive medical equipment that is tied into electrically run equipment, you can understand better the reason for redundant grounding.
These devices that are used to puncture a person's skin and penetrate into their physical being puts them in the most intimate contact with electrical equipment, much more so that drinking from a fountain ever could.
There are times when there may be several different devices inserted and the person is in very critical shape with barely any life left in them, hanging by the smallest margin of life (my father), and the miracle of modern (electrically driven) science is a large part of what helps them survive to see another birthday, Christmas or whatever it is that they are happy to be around to see.
 
In emergency rooms, if you've ever seen a response team in full blown action, They can have a person cut out of their clothing and so full of life support head it makes your head spin. That the equipment is redundant is just an aditional safety measure. Your skin is fairly high resistance, squeeze a couple of probes on a fluke meter set to ohms scale. Now think about if those probes were drove into your hands (or an IV to a blood machine, or tubes down your throat, heart monitors on chest, etc) and take a reading on a body that is more than 60% fluid. Let's hope that the machine is welll grounded. There is a reason it is called the patient care area!
 
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