Refrigerator GFCI in pantry

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Austin electrician

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I have 2 questions.
We are wiring a Firehouse with 3 pantries with doors that connect to the kitchen.
Each pantry has a fridge in it, plugged in to a GFCI receptacle as shown on the electrical plans.
These new refrigerators are randomly tripping them.
Question 1: Is the kitchen in a firehouse a commercial or dwelling kitchen?
Question2: Do the pantries count as part of the kitchen?

Thanks
 
1) Dwelling
2) No
210.8(B

Are the fridge's new? The manufacturer might require GFCI. If so call them perhaps they'll send two new ones.
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Well, I don’t know about commercial code but pantry areas are part of the kitchen, usually, and are like the dining area, in residential, so you have the small appliances and the dedicated circuits, etc...

in commercial work, is the refrigerator required to be gfci? And are you sure about the neutrals?

Just an FYI... usually when I am troubleshooting a circuit that is tripping the gfci breakers... it is a shared circuit but using different neutrals and the neutrals were actually crossed up... so it is not getting the return that it is looking for.. So I would be looking to make sure I have the proper neutral with the proper live wire.. for the proper breaker. Unless you are using gfci outlets only?
 
It is clearly not a commercial kitchen. The question of whether a fire house comprises a "dwelling unit" in the context of the NEC article 100 definition has been the subject of debate. My opinion is that it is not, though I understand why others might disagree. My reason is that it is nobody lives there. It is a work place that does include beds. But the person sleeping on the bed one night might not be the same person the next night, as shift assignments vary.

So I would say that 210.8(B) applies, not 210.8(A). There is no rule in that section that governs pantries. So I would say three things.
(1) There is no requirement for GFCI for the fridges in the pantries.
(2) It is most likely not the GFCI that has a problem, but rather a leakage current within the fridge.
(3) Therefore, I would recommend keeping the GFCI and getting the fridges repaired or replaced.

Welcome to the forum.
 
charlie b said:
It is clearly not a commercial kitchen. The question of whether a fire house comprises a "dwelling unit" in the context of the NEC article 100 definition has been the subject of debate. My opinion is that it is not, though I understand why others might disagree. My reason is that it is nobody lives there. It is a work place that does include beds. But the person sleeping on the bed one night might not be the same person the next night, as shift assignments vary.

So I would say that 210.8(B) applies, not 210.8(A). There is no rule in that section that governs pantries. So I would say three things.
(1) There is no requirement for GFCI for the fridges in the pantries.
(2) It is most likely not the GFCI that has a problem, but rather a leakage current within the fridge.
(3) Therefore, I would recommend keeping the GFCI and getting the fridges repaired or replaced.

Welcome to the forum.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
Its a fridge issue, not a GFCI issue. GFCIs are a very mature product and nuisance tripping is a thing of the past....
 
Coppersmith said:
The kitchen in a firehouse is the same as a breakroom kitchen in an office IMHO.
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I beg to disagree. The NEC definition of "kitchen" mentions a sink and provisions for cooking. An office break room might have these things, but a pantry would not.

 
The OP mentioned pantries "with doors" connected to the kitchen.

Why is the kitchen part of it even coming into play in this when the pantry seems to be a separate room all together?


Jap>
 
tom baker said:
Its a fridge issue, not a GFCI issue..
Click to expand...

I agree, refrigerators are either 1) not NRTL listed / compliant, or 2) using High efficient motor drives.

1) The "Standard for Leakage Current for Appliances, UL 101" allows up to 2.5mA, which is below 4-6mA. If not listed, higher leakage may trip Class A GFCI's.

2) More laundry machines & refrigerators are using High efficient motor drives, which can pass UL 101 for leakage, but trip GFCI's susceptible to harmonic noise from the drives.
 
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ramsy said:
I agree, refrigerators are either 1) not NRTL listed / compliant, or 2) using High efficient motor drives.

1) The "Standard for Leakage Current for Appliances, UL 101" allows up to 2.5mA, which is below 4-6mA. If not listed, higher leakage may trip Class A GFCI's.

2) More laundry machines & refrigerators are using High efficient motor drives, which can pass UL 101 for leakage, but trip GFCI's susceptible to harmonic noise from the drives.
Click to expand...

Which is the exact reason something needs to be done to address the Fridge/GFI requirements.

Folks shouldn't have to worry about their GFI tripping out their refrigerator every day, and, we shouldn't have to put them in that situation knowing it most likely is going to do so.

JAP>
 
jap said:
Which is the exact reason something needs to be done to address the Fridge/GFI requirements.

Folks shouldn't have to worry about their GFI tripping out their refrigerator every day, and, we shouldn't have to put them in that situation knowing it most likely is going to do so.

JAP>
Click to expand...
GFCI compatibility could be OEM problem if it was attached to plug, like newer air-conditioners, hair dryer's, and vending machines.
 
ramsy said:
GFCI compatibility could be OEM problem if it was attached to plug, like newer air-conditioners, hair dryer's, and vending machines.
Click to expand...

I would be all for putting the burden back on the equipment manufacturers instead of us.

JAP>
 
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