Refrigerator on GFCI

[takelly]

I just had a inspector tell me that my refrigerator had to be on a GFCI because in was only 2 feet from the kitchen sink (this is a small duplex).

I think that the code only requires it if it is within 6feet of a Laundry, utility or wetbar sink, or if it is located in a commerical kitchen.

Sorry I should have sent this to the NEC section, I never noticed until after I hit send

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

In kitchens, receptacles that supply the countertop are required to be GFCI protected. There is no measurement from the sink in this requirement. 210.8(A)(6).

 

[celtic]

Re: Refrigerator on GFCI

I just had a inspector tell me that my refrigerator had to be on a GFCI because in was only 2 feet from the kitchen sink (this is a small duplex).

I think that the code only requires it if it is within 6feet of a Laundry, utility or wetbar sink, or if it is located in a commerical kitchen.

I think you need a code book....but I also think your inspector is a bit "off"[210.8(A)(6)].

 

[takelly]

This is the text that he showed me form the Handbook. From the inspectors point of view this makes sense but I do not have a Handbook. The code book does not have all the interpretations it that the Handbook does. If our inspector is using the Handbook to enforce the Code I do not feel that I have any choice but to change it and hope is holds when they go away for a long weekend.


"The revised text of this requirement does not limit the GFCI requirement to only receptacles serving countertop surfaces; rather, it covers all 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles that are within 6 ft of any point along the outside edge of the sink. Many appliances used in these locations are ungrounded, and the presence of water and grounded surfaces contributes to a hazardous environment, leading to the revision of this requirement for GFCI protection around sinks."

 

[celtic]

This is the text that he showed me form the Handbook. From the inspectors point of view this makes sense but I do not have a Handbook. The code book does not have all the interpretations it that the Handbook does. If our inspector is using the Handbook to enforce the Code .....

That's all well and good....BUT

Notice Concerning Code Interpretations:
This ninth edition of the National Electrical Code? Handbook is based on the 2002 edition of NFPA 70, National Electrical Code. All NFPA codes, standards, recommended practices, and guides are developed in accordance with the published procedures of the NFPA by technical committees comprised of volunteers drawn from a broad array of relevant interests. The handbook contains the complete text of NFPA 70 and any applicable Formal Interpretations issued by the Association. These documents are accompanied by explanatory commentary and other supplementary materials.
The commentary and supplementary materials in this handbook are not a part of the Code and do not constitute Formal Interpretations of the NFPA (which can be obtained only through requests processed by the responsible technical committees in accordance with the published procedures of the NFPA). The commentary and supplementary materials, therefore, solely reflect the personal opinions of the editor or other contributors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its technical committees.

That is on the 2nd or 3rd page of the handbook...

 

[George Stolz]

I agree with Pierre and Celtic. There is no requirement to GFCI protect a refrigerator in a residence.

 

[takelly]

Thie is the only PROBLEM that he found with the job. I think that I am just going to FIX it and move on.

I am going to buy an Handbook, if the inspector is going to use one, or we will never be on the same page.

Thank you

 

[celtic]

I agree with Pierre and Celtic. There is no requirement to GFCI protect a refrigerator in a residence.

Residence.
That's the key here.

210.8
(A) Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through (8 ) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.
(6) Kitchens ? where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces

210.8
(B) Other Than Dwelling Units.
All 125-volt, singlephase,
15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations
specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault
circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:
(3) Kitchens



takelly, now which section did he cite? 210.8(A) or 210.8(B)?

 

[celtic]

Thie is the only PROBLEM that he found with the job. I think that I am just going to FIX it and move on.

I am going to buy an Handbook, if the inspector is going to use one, or we will never be on the same page.

Thank you

How are you going to "fix" it?
The HO will not be happy if, and when, that GFI trips while they are away and they lose $600 worth of groceries.
The inspector forcing the GFI on the refrigerator(or any other issue) - without some sort of local amendment stating that in writing - is just wrong.

Buying a handbook is a good idea - just remember, the commentary after the Articles is just that COMMENTARY - it is NOT the Code and it is NOT enforceable.

No offense, but sticking your head in the sand won't make the problem go away....it will simply come back on another job.
You are trying to get on the same page as someone who is simply not reading the handbook correctly - so now on your next job, with a different inspector....how's that going to "fix it"?

 

[takelly]

The Interpretation on the bottom of page 74 of the 2005 Handbook.

It is at the end of 210.8(A)(7)

"With this change, GFCI protection requirements are now in place for all areas in a dwelling unit in which a sink is installed."

This part of the of the interpretation is what he said made him right and it makes sense to him (he seemed sure of himself).

 

[celtic]

The Interpretation on the bottom of page 74 of the 2005 Handbook.

It is at the end of 210.8(A)(7)

"With this change, GFCI protection requirements are now in place for all areas in a dwelling unit in which a sink is installed."

This part of the of the interpretation is what he said made him right and it makes sense to him (he seemed sure of himself).

What does 210.8(A)(7) say about kitchens again?

(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks ? where the receptacles
are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside
edge of the sink

'cause I don't see kitchen mentioned in it anywhere.

 

[takelly]

If I request that my boss fight this it would have to be more clear cut and with an inspector who was pushing his AHJ in our faces.

I feel that he is just trying to best job he can with the information that he has. He was really nice to us and took the time to show us the Code when we questioned him.

This could go either way if I push it. The Handbook would must likely be used by his boss to support his person in the feild.

Thank you all for your time.
It is late good night

 

[celtic]

If I request that my boss fight this it would have to be more clear cut and with an inspector who was pushing his AHJ in our faces.

I'd like to know how he can justify:
1) - using the commentary as some sort of code?
The handbook explictily states:

The commentary and supplementary materials, therefore, solely reflect the personal opinions of the editor or other contributors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its technical committees.

2) Applying the commentary from 210.8(A)(7) to 210.8(A)(6)?
Why not just call it a day and apply 210.8(B)(2)?

I don't know how much more clear cut that can be.

I feel that he is just trying to best job he can with the information that he has. He was really nice to us and took the time to show us the Code when we questioned him.

I'm sorry, but the inspector is taking whatever unenforceable commentary he wants and is ad-libbing it to wherever he wants in the NEC.
This is not "trying to best job he can with the information that he has". He has the information, but he is using it incorrectly.
This might be a minor monetary issue - this time....so next time he tells you that the 2/0 CU you just installed is not rated for the 200A service[T310.15(B)(6)] and you must use 3/0 [T310.16]

This could go either way if I push it. The Handbook would must likely be used by his boss to support his person in the feild.

If it goes any way - but the right way...Something is rotten in the state of South Dakota. (to paraphrase Marcellus/Shakespear).
If his boss were to use the unenforceable commentary following 210.8(A)(7) and attempt to apply it to 210.8(A)(6), he would be just as wrong as the inspector....and when that happens.....

If you don't push it - it can go only one-way....and that could cost your boss some serious money on the next "misinterpretation".

I would simply approach the inspector, tell him what I have discovered/concluded/researched:
- 210.8(A)(6) is not the same as 210.8(A)(7)
- the commentary is from 210.8(A)(7), and does not apply to 210.8(A)(6).
- the handbook commentary is editorial opinion, not the official position of the NFPA and is just as unenforceable as the FPN's in the NEC( 90.5(C) ).

Thank you all for your time.
It is late good night

You're welcome
Good night to you, also.

 

[infinity]

Even if the commentary were enforceable, the sentence that you posted is commenting on Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks. This wouldn't even apply to kitchens unless the sink in question were one of these types of sink.

 

[1793]

Re: Refrigerator on GFCI

I just had a inspector tell me that my refrigerator had to be on a GFCI because in was only 2 feet from the kitchen sink (this is a small duplex).

I think that the code only requires it if it is within 6feet of a Laundry, utility or wetbar sink, or if it is located in a commerical kitchen.

Sorry I should have sent this to the NEC section, I never noticed until after I hit send

I don't know if this makes any difference, "Is the refrigerator outlet behind the the refrigerator or is the refrigerator pluged into a countertop outlet?" 210.8(6)

 

[Mike03a3]

Re: Refrigerator on GFCI

I don't know if this makes any difference, "Is the refrigerator outlet behind the the refrigerator or is the refrigerator pluged into a countertop outlet?" 210.8(6)

Sure it makes a difference - it makes the sink question moot because a GFCI would be required for a kitchen countertop receptacle. 210.8(A)(6)

 

[1793]

Re: Refrigerator on GFCI

I don't know if this makes any difference, "Is the refrigerator outlet behind the the refrigerator or is the refrigerator pluged into a countertop outlet?" 210.8(6)

Sure it makes a difference - it makes the sink question moot because a GFCI would be required for a kitchen countertop receptacle. 210.8(A)(6)

My take on the issue as well. I mentioned this only because the OP does not give us the location which as we determined DOES IOHO make a difference.

 

[steve66]

What the heck is a "wet bar sink"? I think I know but it's not defined in the code anywhere.

So....how does one prove the kitchen sink is not a wet bar sink? There is nothing that explicitly says the kitchen sink is not a wet bar sink.

 

[charlie b]

There is nothing that explicitly says the kitchen sink is not a wet bar sink.

It would be a real stretch for an Inspector to use that as the basis for requiring GFI for the fridge receptacle. In any case, that is not what this particular Inspector is citing.

But to answer your question, since the phrase "wet bar sink" is not defined in the NEC, we must go with the industry's standard interpretation. First, it would have to be a sink. More importantly, however, it would have to be associated with a bar. That in itself would disqualify the kitchen sink from meeting this description, as it is associated with the preparation of food and the cleaning of dishes.

 

[charlie b]

This is the text that he showed me from the Handbook.

"The revised text of this requirement . . .

What version are you looking at? The rule requiring GFCI receptacles for kitchen countertop receptacles has not seen any "revised text" at least since the 1996 version.