jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
When using the white wire in MC or romex as an ungrounded conductor are we allowed to use it as a travelor in a 3 way circuit ? I think we covered this once but i need a code referance
REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
- Thread starter jimwalker
- Start date
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pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
Good Morning Jim
Yes, 200.7(C)(2)
Good Morning Jim
Yes, 200.7(C)(2)
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
200.7 (C)
200.7 (C)
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
JW
A fraction of a second
JW
A fraction of a second
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
Good morning gentelmen.
Good morning gentelmen.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
Thanks that was fast.I seen a red and white used as travelors yesterday.Do most not use red and black ?
So would you let this fly or try to fix it.It is a new building we are triming.
Thanks that was fast.I seen a red and white used as travelors yesterday.Do most not use red and black ?
So would you let this fly or try to fix it.It is a new building we are triming.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
Jim,good morning What I found is the easiest way to remark up to a #4 (have had no neeed to remark any larger) us to drop in at Walmart.Go to office/school supply and look for one of those big a_ _ grafitti markers,cut a V into the long side and when you need to remark an ungrounded conductor or in as your case part of a 3 wire cable assy.A couple of swipes and done deal.
I personally liked r & b, but have seen old timers also use r & w .Not that I`m an old timer 31,32,33 years in January
Jim,good morning
What I found is the easiest way to remark up to a #4 (have had no neeed to remark any larger) us to drop in at Walmart.Go to office/school supply and look for one of those big a_ _ grafitti markers,cut a V into the long side and when you need to remark an ungrounded conductor or in as your case part of a 3 wire cable assy.A couple of swipes and done deal.I personally liked r & b, but have seen old timers also use r & w .Not that I`m an old timer 31,32,33 years in January
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
It depends on how it is installed. If the switch is a dead end then I see no problem.
Some people confuse these words, ?white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet.?
This simply states that the white can not be used to come from the switch to the light.
Should the light be fed hot and power was dropped on the switch leg the white wire would be used to feed the switch and the black as the return to the light fixture.
We only want one white wire to connect to the light.
It depends on how it is installed. If the switch is a dead end then I see no problem.
Some people confuse these words, ?white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet.?
This simply states that the white can not be used to come from the switch to the light.
Should the light be fed hot and power was dropped on the switch leg the white wire would be used to feed the switch and the black as the return to the light fixture.
We only want one white wire to connect to the light.
georgeswe
Senior Member
- Location
- The Republic of Southern California
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
The V works great another good way is to drill a hole thru the middle of the marker tip and just slide the wire up inside it ) covers all the sides WORKS GREAT
The V works great another good way is to drill a hole thru the middle of the marker tip and just slide the wire up inside it ) covers all the sides WORKS GREAT
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
What bothers me is when someone makes up a 3 way switch on the rough and leaves no clue as to what 2 are the travelors.Twist them or something.And often they forget or never heard they are to remark them.Inspectors have never said anything about remarking.
Some how i had it in my head that if we use a white as a hot it must remain hot at all times.
What bothers me is when someone makes up a 3 way switch on the rough and leaves no clue as to what 2 are the travelors.Twist them or something.And often they forget or never heard they are to remark them.Inspectors have never said anything about remarking.
Some how i had it in my head that if we use a white as a hot it must remain hot at all times.
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
attended a continuous education class a few weeks ago. instructor got in a hurry up mode toward the end and I am not sure about two items;
1. 2005 nec code says wires can only be remarked if larger than #6 AWG
2. 2005 nec code says the entire circuit of a GFCI circuit must be protected....can no longer run(example) 50 feet of romex to the first receptacle (gfci)....
Exception: install a gfci receptacle within 5 feet of breaker panel, then its ok!
Maybe I misunderstood! 2005 code will not be adopted until January 2006...waitin til the last minute to buy my copy....
Did I hear him right or am I going deaf?
attended a continuous education class a few weeks ago. instructor got in a hurry up mode toward the end and I am not sure about two items;
1. 2005 nec code says wires can only be remarked if larger than #6 AWG
2. 2005 nec code says the entire circuit of a GFCI circuit must be protected....can no longer run(example) 50 feet of romex to the first receptacle (gfci)....
Exception: install a gfci receptacle within 5 feet of breaker panel, then its ok!
Maybe I misunderstood! 2005 code will not be adopted until January 2006...waitin til the last minute to buy my copy....
Did I hear him right or am I going deaf?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
I'd hate to say it but I think that you're going deaf...
[ August 05, 2005, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: infinity ]
I'd hate to say it but I think that you're going deaf...
[ August 05, 2005, 04:42 AM: Message edited by: infinity ]
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
Originally posted by wildman:
attended a continuous education class a few weeks ago. instructor got in a hurry up mode toward the end and I am not sure about two items;
1. 2005 nec code says wires can only be remarked if larger than #6 AWG
Nope, this text hasn't changed from the 2002.
2. 2005 nec code says the entire circuit of a GFCI circuit must be protected....can no longer run(example) 50 feet of romex to the first receptacle (gfci)....
Exception: install a gfci receptacle within 5 feet of breaker panel, then its ok!
Nope, that's AFCI protection, not GFCI. But no worries, it's a post-dated check: The existing method will be acceptable until 2008.
[/b]
rasmithircgov.com
Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
200.7(C)(2) Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible.
Am I lost here or does this Art. say" supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch.... Is that not the travelers. What is it Im missing? The white as Traveler isnt always going to be hot. One time it will and one time it wont. Depending on position of switch. So your telling me that your going to mark a wire as hot that isnt going to be hot continuiosly. We mark white as hot at the breaker when used. It's continuosly hot. I believe its not to code to mark a switch leg or travelers as hot when it wont be continuosly hot. It also says "supply to the switch". Arent supplies to anything hot continous. On three way switches etc. you feed on one end switch the other. Or you dead end it etc. One way or another there is a constant hot there, and travelers(return conductors). Really dont see it as you are.
It says"switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply. Supply would be a contant hot.
200.7(C)(2) Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible.
Am I lost here or does this Art. say" supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch.... Is that not the travelers. What is it Im missing? The white as Traveler isnt always going to be hot. One time it will and one time it wont. Depending on position of switch. So your telling me that your going to mark a wire as hot that isnt going to be hot continuiosly. We mark white as hot at the breaker when used. It's continuosly hot. I believe its not to code to mark a switch leg or travelers as hot when it wont be continuosly hot. It also says "supply to the switch". Arent supplies to anything hot continous. On three way switches etc. you feed on one end switch the other. Or you dead end it etc. One way or another there is a constant hot there, and travelers(return conductors). Really dont see it as you are.
It says"switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply. Supply would be a contant hot.
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
rasmithirc,
I'm going to remove a few words from 200.7 C (2)
A cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for a single pole,the conductor with white is used for the supply. In these applications the conductor with white shall be permanently reidentified at each location where visible and accessible.
I'm hoping this helps clear it up for you.
frank
rasmithirc,
I'm going to remove a few words from 200.7 C (2)
A cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for a single pole,the conductor with white is used for the supply. In these applications the conductor with white shall be permanently reidentified at each location where visible and accessible.
I'm hoping this helps clear it up for you.
frank
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
I feel safer using the blk and red as travelors.That way the white if used as a hot will always stay hot.I also tend to think of a travelor as a return.But the wording is not clear.
I feel safer using the blk and red as travelors.That way the white if used as a hot will always stay hot.I also tend to think of a travelor as a return.But the wording is not clear.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
My preference is to run the feed to the far switch on the white, so the red/black are the travelers. The only time a white "must" be a traveler is when the load is between the switches.
No, when we re-color a white, we're declaring it to no longer be a neutral. There's no rule that any color must be "always hot", whether factory or re-colored.
My preference is to run the feed to the far switch on the white, so the red/black are the travelers. The only time a white "must" be a traveler is when the load is between the switches.
mvannevel
Senior Member
- Location
- Hesperia, Michigan
Re: REMARKING A WHITE WIRE
[ August 07, 2005, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: mvannevel ]
What 200.7(C)(2) says (at least in my opinion) is that you can use the re-identified conductor as a traveler, but not as the switched leg to the switched outlet. What you're missing is the part where it says, "...return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet ". That's the key to what you can do with the re-identified white conductor.
[ August 07, 2005, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: mvannevel ]
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