Remodel basement...Smoke detector

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noshorts63

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Buffalo, MN
My question is if I am adding some smoke detectors to finish my basement, I would like to come off existing smoke detectors with a 3 wire. Do I need to update the whole circuit to arc fault or can I just tap off existing for smoke detectors only? Wiring method is NM. :?
 
ARC safety?

ARC safety?

Then I would have to find the existing circuit because I do not think you can have two separate smoke detector circuits. All other parts of that circuit would then be protected by the ARC fault. It seems like this code requirement is not for safety, but to sell more ARC devices. Any other circuits in this remodel area that are existing would also need ARC fault protection. My question then makes me wonder about some other existing outlets and lights in this remodel area, can these be removed after the rough in electrical inspection, or must they be removed prior to inspection?
 
The NEC had to draw the line somewhere and has left some other options to protect the circuit. You can use a afci receptacle if you have a place to add one ahead of the second smoke. Finding the circuit should be pretty simple but regardless of the reason for afci you still need it. ;)
 
I understand what you are saying, but again this would need to be ARC fault breaker because that whole previous circuit would need to be connected to one smoke alarm system! Unless I am wrong then I could just have one or two single connected smokes. As to finding the circuit no problem, I was try to save money and not buy another AFCI breaker @$38!
 
noshorts63 said:
I understand what you are saying, but again this would need to be ARC fault breaker because that whole previous circuit would need to be connected to one smoke alarm system! Unless I am wrong then I could just have one or two single connected smokes. As to finding the circuit no problem, I was try to save money and not buy another AFCI breaker @$38!
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You do not have to protect the entire circuit just what you have added to the circuit. The afci receptacles at my supply company are about $28- not a great saving
 
I wonder if I can supply the smoke with existing arc fault outlets and just have an interconnect between the homes other 6 smoke detectors! Usually the red wire in a 3 wire nm.
 
noshorts63 said:
I wonder if I can supply the smoke with existing arc fault outlets and just have an interconnect between the homes other 6 smoke detectors! Usually the red wire in a 3 wire nm.
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Good question then you only need the red wire to the other smoke alarm. Not sure that will work or whether it is a good idea. Personally I think you are trying to cut this corner for 40 bucks.. Not sure it is worth it
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Good question then you only need the red wire to the other smoke alarm. Not sure that will work or whether it is a good idea. Personally I think you are trying to cut this corner for 40 bucks.. Not sure it is worth it
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Indeed, can you interconnect smokes on different circuits as long as on same phase? Does it even require that?
Will the interconnect work when some are on battery and siome aren't?
 
GoldDigger said:
Indeed, can you interconnect smokes on different circuits as long as on same phase? Does it even require that?
Will the interconnect work when some are on battery and siome aren't?
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I thought the interconnected wire was 9V so why would the units need to be on the same phase

This is from How Stuff Works website

When any alarm detects a fire, it sends a 9-volt signal on the red wire. Any alarm that detects a 9-volt signal on the red wire will begin sounding its alarm immediately. Most alarms can handle about a dozen units intercommunicating on the same red wire. It's a very simple and a very effective system.
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It can't be a simple 9V signal or else all brands would be compatible with each other. A fire department around here failed an inspection on a home changing hands because it had one hard-wired detector that didn't signal the rest. It was a simple fix to just buy the correct brand.

Are you saying that you can't get a wire to the existing smoke detectors? Because if you can, just run your 14-3 from one of those to your new smoke and put that circuit on an arc-fault.

It sounds like you just want to feed your smoke with a circuit in the room that you already need to upgrade to arc-fault. You can still do this if you do the install like I described. Just disconnect the original feed at the first smoke detector and then backfeed them from your basement on the newly arc-faulted circuit.
 
noshorts63 said:
TMy question then makes me wonder about some other existing outlets and lights in this remodel area, can these be removed after the rough in electrical inspection, or must they be removed prior to inspection?
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I usually remove before inspection, but there have been occasions in the interest of keeping the job moving where I removed a few things after inspection. That might get the framing inspector in there a day earlier which means they can start insulation a day earlier.
 
As a VERY strong advocate for Smoke "Alarms" and AFCI's , I am 100% sure I should not make this statement.....I do not see "basements" listed in Section 210.12(A) as directed back to in Section 210.12(B), unless you are going to reach and use the "similar rooms or areas" aspect of the code reference.

If wish to call it a "recreation room" then yes.....you are modifying the branch circuit so AFCI protection is required. If you are calling it a "Family Room" then yes...you are modifying the branch circuit and AFCI protection is required.

Would I install AFCI Protection regardless...YES...because I do drink from the Kool-Aid that says they work and add benefit.
 
MasterTheNEC said:
As a VERY strong advocate for Smoke "Alarms" and AFCI's , I am 100% sure I should not make this statement.....I do not see "basements" listed in Section 210.12(A) as directed back to in Section 210.12(B), unless you are going to reach and use the "similar rooms or areas" aspect of the code reference.

If wish to call it a "recreation room" then yes.....you are modifying the branch circuit so AFCI protection is required. If you are calling it a "Family Room" then yes...you are modifying the branch circuit and AFCI protection is required.

Would I install AFCI Protection regardless...YES...because I do drink from the Kool-Aid that says they work and add benefit.
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Not in NJ. Check your state and local codes. The NEC even has a statement in it somewhere saying it isn't intended to be retroactive.

GoldDigger:
The manufacturer's literature will also have something in it stating you can't use multiple AC circuits to power smoke alarms. I there doesn't appear to be anything in NFPA 72 on multiple AC sources.
 
This was touched on before but you may need to check if the existing smokes are compatable with whichever new ones you will be installing they all aren't compatible with each other even some of the older Fire-X which were bought out by Kidde even though they looked similar.
Instructions will have compatable models listed check against model numbers printed on the back of existing units.
 
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