Remodel MC use

[fauxfly]

Hi guys

I'm remodeling some apartments, The inside walls are block which are painted right now. Long story short my AE does'nt want anything surface mounted. (He also has the check book to back up this brain child.) I need to get switch boxes, receps and a few misc. things in the wall and down through the floor. My question here is what if I can have my kids (apprentices) slot the wall with a concrete cutter and run MC in it and set my recep boxes and my switch boxes then mud it in with mortor. Route this down to a box on the ceiling deck below on the next floor down.

Stupid idea or not... I am familiar with 330.10 and 330.12. Lookin for some advice.

Thanks guys

Steve

 

[infinity]

Looking at 330.10(10) I would say that you're OK if you embed the cable in a plaster finish.

 

[mdshunk]

If you go that route, it's probably worth getting yourself a "wall slotter", sometimes called a "wall chaser". It's more or less a heavy duty skil saw with a carbide dado blade, designed to make slots for cables in plaster, brick, and cinder block. Interior partitions in resi cocrete block construction are often 4" block, so fishing down the cores isn't really an option.

Here's a pic of my Hitachi wall slotter. It happens to have the diamond blades on it at the moment instead of the carbide:

 

[iwire]

OK I now have to admit Marc found a power tool I have never even heard of.

I have no doubt that thing would pay for itself in very little time.

 

[nakulak]

jeez, I thought I'd seen it all (mostly).


wow. you are truly a remarkable dude, Marc.

 

[peter d]

OK I now have to admit Marc found a power tool I have never even heard of.

Me neither, though I suspect that has to do with the fact that we don't need a tool like that often...and apparently in our case around here...never.

 

[mdshunk]

Me neither, though I suspect that has to do with the fact that we don't need a tool like that often...and apparently in our case around here...never.

Plaster on brick, such as is common for the exterior room walls of pre-war construction, is what I bought it purposely for. HILTI makes one too. They're around a grand, but hook them to a HEPA vac and the process is closer to pleasurable versus the typical alternative of spending all day with a slotting chisel in a roto-hammer.

 

[infinity]

Plaster on brick, such as is common for the exterior room walls of pre-war construction, is what I bought it purposely for. HILTI makes one too. They're around a grand, but hook them to a HEPA vac and the process is closer to pleasurable versus the typical alternative of spending all day with a slotting chisel in a roto-hammer.

We've used them in the past for slotting gypsum block walls. Without some sort of vacuum attachment every guy on the job will hate you.

 

[mdshunk]

We've used them in the past for slotting gypsum block walls. Without some sort of vacuum attachment every guy on the job will hate you.

Oh, you betcha. I have already just taken the top off the shop-vac, ran the hose to it outside, and just let the dust blow in the breeze instead of the in vac canister. Saves clogging up filters. I wouldn't use that arrangement in town, though. Swimming pool cleaning hose makes for a good long shop-vac hose. Indoors, a fella really needs to use a HEPA vac due to the lead based paint normally encountered.

 

[growler]

OK I now have to admit Marc found a power tool I have never even heard of.

I thought that was kind of strange myself. I did a search for wall slotter and wall chaser and it appears they get a lot of use in the UK.

It must be one of those tools that doesn't get as much use over here because of the different contruction types.

I have seen a few times when it would have come in handy but not on a regular basis. Probably why many contractors don't own one, that and the fact they have never herd of it.

One day I plan to visit the Marc Shunk Museum of constuction tools ( when it opens) and see what else there is in the world of power tools that I don't know about.. More interesting than looking at dried up dead people.

 

[jmsbrush]

So Marc, Im trying to picture this in my head. Does the tool cut a slot about 3/4 into the block and you just lay the mc in the slot and strap it some how? Or does the machine cut through the block and you just place the mc into the cell of the block and Patch afterwards?

 

[mdshunk]

So Marc, Im trying to picture this in my head. Does the tool cut a slot about 3/4 into the block and you just lay the mc in the slot and strap it some how? Or does the machine cut through the block and you just place the mc into the cell of the block and Patch afterwards?

However deep you want to set it is up to you. In block, I just cut clean through. In brick or plaster, I just cut a groove and strap the cable or pipe in with cut nails.

 

[jmsbrush]

The basic install starts at $1,000.00."
Do you patch the holes you're self or is that something the Gc would do for you?

 

[mdshunk]

Do you patch the holes you're self or is that something the Gc would do for you?[/COLOR]

Not sure who you're asking, but I really don't patch holes or sub out patching if I can help it. I think it's best for the EC to stick to electrical work, but sometimes it is required for him to hire out patching and painting. In a remodel job, there's already a GC involved who has a plaster guy and a painter contracted for other work anyhow, so it's best for the EC to exclude patching and painting.

 

[jmsbrush]

Not sure who you're asking, but I really don't patch holes or sub out patching if I can help it. I think it's best for the EC to stick to electrical work, but sometimes it is required for him to hire out patching and painting. In a remodel job, there's already a GC involved who has a plaster guy and a painter contracted for other work anyhow, so it's best for the EC to exclude patching and painting.

Sorry about that Marc , I copied and pasted in the wrong box and didn't see it? So as long as there is open communication with the Gc so he doesn't try to back charge you for the holes, then that is awesome .I could have used one of those this week. I was fishing romex down block walls. We were using glow rods they seem to work pretty good except when you get those little fiberglass splinters

 

[mdshunk]

I was fishing romex down block walls. We were using glow rods they seem to work pretty good except when you get those little fiberglass splinters

"Paint" the real bad spots on your fish sticks with PVC glue to keep from getting the worst slivers in you. Better yet, use a string and weight instead of the fish sticks.

 

[jmsbrush]

"Paint" the real bad spots on your fish sticks with PVC glue to keep from getting the worst slivers in you. Better yet, use a string and weight instead of the fish sticks.

Pvc glue thats a good Idea!! I have done that too. I took the string on my plub bob and tied a 1/2 nut to the end .Worked pretty good. Hey Marc this is off topic but do you do custom homes?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I also have performed that "slotting" on a few jobs....it is not a pleasureable job (one of them was almost a week of constant grinding...what a mess). It is not bad with the saw though. I cannot imagine even slotting one wall without the vacuum or some water if the conditions permit water...such as an unfinished basement. Also, the noise factor has to be considered.

If you have enough of this, I would schedule with the GC to try and have the other trades to be aware of what you are doing, so they can choose to reschedule their time.

I use to use a hardhat with a full face sheild, ear protection, a very good vacuum and most important, a young guy who, if he quit after this it would not be so bad. :grin:


And...if the masonary finish is the final finish, the slot has to be deep enough to place the cable in it and still comply with 300.4(F).

 

[jmsbrush]

comply with 300.4(F).
300.4 what section?

 

[wirebender]

300.4(F) only applies if the wall is going to be covered with something that might require nails, screws, etc. IMSO