Remodels/Renovations: code violations, whose responsibility?

[JFletcher]

When adding to old work, such as a kitchen remodel or partial renovation, is it on the EC to fix violations that were never allowed? Not compliant work at the time, but things that were never compliant? Take for example this house which was built in 1953, with cloth 2-wire NM. I assume I'm not allowed to extend any existing circuits, just device and wire replacement, but what codes govern this? Say I find a single gang box with 6 12/2 in it; is it on me to correct that? Also, how am I supposed to know everything in every code cycle? I know that 3 wire dryer and range receptacles were once allowed, but have been required to be 4-wire for some time, but when? If I leave it alone, is it still legal, or do I have to abandon it for a 4 wire? Switches havent always needed grounding, but do now. What to do if there is no egc or grounded box? Can I code-compliantly change a switch if there is no available grounding means?

Any help on this would be much appreciated.

 

[user 100]

When adding to old work, such as a kitchen remodel or partial renovation, is it on the EC to fix violations that were never allowed? Not compliant work at the time, but things that were never compliant? Take for example this house which was built in 1953, with cloth 2-wire NM. I assume I'm not allowed to extend any existing circuits, just device and wire replacement, but what codes govern this? Say I find a single gang box with 6 12/2 in it; is it on me to correct that? Also, how am I supposed to know everything in every code cycle? I know that 3 wire dryer and range receptacles were once allowed, but have been required to be 4-wire for some time, but when? If I leave it alone, is it still legal, or do I have to abandon it for a 4 wire? Switches havent always needed grounding, but do now. What to do if there is no egc or grounded box? Can I code-compliantly change a switch if there is no available grounding means?

Any help on this would be much appreciated.

You are allowed to extend ungrounded circuits- 250.130(C) makes it legal- contrary to popular belief, you CANNOT do gfci alone and extend old bc.

6 12/2 in single small box- fix it if touched or recommend or go blind.

4th wire has been required since '96 for dryers and ranges- 3 wire is grandfathered if unextended- see 250.140 exception

Replacement Switch grounding, Yes- 404.9 Exception # 1 to (B)

 

[jaylectricity]

Take for example this house which was built in 1953, with cloth 2-wire NM. I assume I'm not allowed to extend any existing circuits, just device and wire replacement, but what codes govern this?

If you replace the device you must make it GFCI protected and now you must also make it AFCI protected. Most easily accomplished with a dual-purpose breaker on the circuit, but there are other ways.

Say I find a single gang box with 6 12/2 in it; is it on me to correct that? Also, how am I supposed to know everything in every code cycle?

You don't have to fix it, but you should probably just close it back up and pretend you never saw it. Definitely don't add anything else to that circuit no matter where you tap off.

I know that 3 wire dryer and range receptacles were once allowed, but have been required to be 4-wire for some time, but when? If I leave it alone, is it still legal, or do I have to abandon it for a 4 wire?

If you leave the circuit alone it can stay, but if you want to move the receptacle you'll have to replace it.

Switches havent always needed grounding, but do now. What to do if there is no egc or grounded box? Can I code-compliantly change a switch if there is no available grounding means?

Replace the switch, use plastic 6-32 screws for the faceplate.

 

[user 100]

If you replace the device you must make it GFCI protected.....

He can also use replacement 2 wire receptacles.

To the op:

From the 2014-

406.4 (2) Gives you replacement options for those old ng outlets.
210.12 (B) Gives you the afci info when replacing those outlets/ext ckt.

Really though what you are required to replace depends on which code cycle you are under and if your ahj has added to/deleted requirements from that particular cycle.

Don't know ​every code cycle from the last 60 years or what was needed in say, 1972 or something? Just come here.

 

[growler]

When adding to old work, such as a kitchen remodel or partial renovation, is it on the EC to fix violations that were never allowed? Not compliant work at the time, but things that were never compliant? Also, how am I supposed to know everything in every code cycle? I know that 3 wire dryer and range receptacles were once allowed, but have been required to be 4-wire for some time, but when? If I leave it alone, is it still legal, or do I have to abandon it for a 4 wire? Switches havent always needed grounding, but do now. What to do if there is no egc or grounded box? Can I code-compliantly change a switch if there is no available grounding means?

Any help on this would be much appreciated.

In my "opinion" you are talking about different things here. A kitchen remodel is one thing and changing out an ungrounded switch is another.

If you permit a job as a "kitchen remodel" that will be considered new work and you will have to bring the kitchen up to today's code ( whatever cycle you are on ). If you remodel a house and don't open the walls you can leave the old wire and replace that old switch as a repair ( it's stated on the permit what you intend to do, paint, carpet, replace switches and receptacles ). If you open the walls ( sheetrock replaced ) the AHJ may require new wiring and a ground and things brought up to code. A lot of this is local when remodeling and what will be required.

 

[iwire]

There is no one size fits all answer to this. It depends entirely on local rules and traditions.

 

[__dan]

I walked through a basement once and saw this wire just hung like a clothes hanger on a run of knob and tube where the K and T had a bit of its insulation scraped off. I unhooked it and heard the owner's TV set lose power... He complained that it no longer worked and I told him he could hook it back after I'm gone.

Code compliance is the owner's responsibility, not yours, and only becomes your responsibility either based on the contract language or if you touch it or alter it. If you do not touch it and the owner has not made you contractually obligated to perform the repair/upgrade, the owner retains the liability. So you would protect yourself with your contract and permit stating exactly what is included in scope of work you are to perform and listing exclusions from the contract in an effort to avoid becoming responsible for unpaid work and headaches.

You have a "duty to perform", which can be a grey area, if you see code violations and say nothing (negligence?). May be hard to prove but can be very easy to tie you up in a complaint or delay job/payments/completion.

Everything has to be in writing, 'I saw and advised you, the owner, of this deficiency and you declined the offer of additional work'. If you do it verbally, at the end of the job the owner will forget that you offered to charge extra for the extra work but remember that it needs to be done and he wants you to do it to get final payment.

You only have to do the work you have contracted for. Your work has to meet code, not the owner's (the owner can choose to retain and increase his illegal deficiencies). If you work on something specific you will have to either bring it up to code or maintain it exactly in its grandfathered condition by not altering it. If it's so bad you cannot touch it, communicate that in writing to the owner, "pay me to fix this or decline the offer of my work and keep it exactly as it is".

There are many many instances where other codes and programs, government money or requirements, will make the owner comply with the current codes. This is the owner's responsibility and only becomes yours based on your contract language. However, it can be a source of disagreement if the scope of work increases after construction has started and the owner does not want to pay. You will need your contract to have language protecting you from this.

 

[JFletcher]

thank you jay, user100, growler, iwire and dan.