Remote panel use question

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wbalsam1

Senior Member
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Upper Jay, NY
Here's an interesting question:
I have a panel in an outbuilding that is wired in three-wire with a re-grounded neutral as permitted by 250.32 (2002 NEC in effect). There are no metallic paths between the buildings (the water service to the outbuilding comes directly from the street, not the dwelling) and I have established a grounding electrode system at the outbuilding. May I use this panel to feed swimming pool equipment?

I have an answer, but I want to field some answers first. Thanks.:)
 
Existing. I'd say yes, based on 680.25(B)(2) (and meeting the requirements set forth therein)
 
Could whoever writes this make 680.25(B)(2) just a little harder to figure out please. That last part "Where installed..." "Exception..." has me scratching my head a little.
 
There are no metallic paths between the buildings (the water service to the outbuilding comes directly from the street, not the dwelling)

Odds are, you do have a metallic path, unless there are non-metallic fittings on the water.
Outbuilding water - water main - dwelling water. If it is all metal, you have a parallel neutral path.
 
Odds are, you do have a metallic path, unless there are non-metallic fittings on the water.
Outbuilding water - water main - dwelling water. If it is all metal, you have a parallel neutral path.

In this sense, of course, you're correct. The neutral is re-grounded and the grounding electrode system uses the water main as an electrode along with a ground rod. So there is an indirect connection via the street main that is connected to the dwelling, too. :smile:
 
Existing. I'd say yes, based on 680.25(B)(2) (and meeting the requirements set forth therein)

My 2008 code does not have a section 250.32(b)(1) which is the section I'm directed to from 680.25(b)(2)??

I think they meant the exception found in 250.32(B)... If the water feeds are continuos and bonded this panel cannot be used.. for any additional purpose IMO.
 
In this sense, of course, you're correct. The neutral is re-grounded and the grounding electrode system uses the water main as an electrode along with a ground rod. So there is an indirect connection via the street main that is connected to the dwelling, too. :smile:

I would not say indirect ,.. it either is a continuous metallic bonded path or it is not.
 
My 2008 code does not have a section 250.32(b)(1) which is the section I'm directed to from 680.25(b)(2)??

I think they meant the exception found in 250.32(B)... If the water feeds are continuos and bonded this panel cannot be used.. for any additional purpose IMO.

I think he mentioned being on the 2002 and it was there. When 250.32 "dropped" the neutral-ground in '08 it was rerwritten I think.
I agree. the existing scenerio is now handled by the exception.
I am not knowledgable enough of the reasoing behind the "continuous metal path" thinking to address it. In his OP we had "no paths" but you were sharp enough to catch the water. I have some question in my mind if grounding electrodes are what was intended by the "meatllic path" statemet, but until someone shows me differently, I would have to change my answer to no to be safe.
If it were not fictitious but real, I'd suggest a section of PVC water pipe to eliminate the path and allow you to use the existing
 
I think he mentioned being on the 2002 and it was there. When 250.32 "dropped" the neutral-ground in '08 it was rerwritten I think.

If it were not fictitious but real, I'd suggest a section of PVC water pipe to eliminate the path and allow you to use the existing

Now this leads to another question . If there is 11' or more of metal pipe at structure 2
would that plastic isolating fitting need to be 10'1" away from the structure?

Can we decide to effectively remove an electrode from the system?? Drive two rods and be done with it??
 
I would think anywhere you install the PVC pipe would "break" the path.
Either one of your options.
I hate to loose the electrode, but you have the same effect when a plumber changes it out later :)
Given the opportunity, I'd probably go the 10' 1" route.
You should have the ground rods already (250.53{C}{2})
 
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