Dasmacci
Member
- Location
- all of California
hello all... new here so my advance apologies as I learn the ropes.
I am a Generac Dealer and long time electrician, recently we have had a surge of generator installs and are coming up with a few questions. There are several choices for Generac Automatic Transfer Switches (ATS). one of them is a SE rated switch(service entrance). the SE rated has a Service Rated 200 amp breaker for the sake of this conversation, then there is the 200 amp no SE rated switch without a breaker incorporated.
For the purpose of this conversation, we are going to assume a 22kw Gen for a whole house application, as opposed to just selected loads.
In some panels, we can take the feed from the meter when it is accessible enough where we can splice the meter feed and run it to the Non SE rated switch without a breaker and bring the conductors back and feed it to the input side of the existing main breaker. basically placing the transfer switch schematically between the meter and the main breaker.
Also, again on a whole house application, when the feeder from the meter side of the panel is a cable but there is not enough space to bring the 3/0 or 4/0 and feed into the main breaker, we can remove the main breaker and eliminate it, use UL listed Polaris connectors and take the meeter feed to the SE rated ATS, and bring back the output side of the ATS with the 200 amp main service rated breaker to the buss on the existing main and backfeed using a Eaton Cutler Hammer BRS225- 225 amp rated Lug Block and the whole panels is now fed by the gen and the utility when on utility power, and the gen when there is a blackout and the grid is isolated.
According to Generac this is perfectly fine, but during a permit application process, the plan checker was telling me that is modifying the panel and it voids the UL listing.
Same plan checker was saying that if we penetrate a panel on the back it also voids the UL listing of the panel, same with on the top or anywhere where there is not a manufacturer's knockout!!! what about panels without a knockout? I have seen those in commercial applications if I recall. when I asked him that, he didn't have an answer aside from "that's how we do it here".
To be clear on the penetrations, the panels are flush mount and the penetrations are made from the inside of the garage wall, so weather should not be a question.
This seems silly since the panel is not modified in any way, Polaris is an approved method and UL listed. The Main panel, to my knowledge, is an approved enclosure and therefore a proper splice should not be an issue.
Also... why do we have knockout tools if we can make knockouts?
Can anyone help me out here? thanks in advance.. I have marked up some photos and have attached.
hope I didn't ramble on ... thanks again.
I dont seem be able to make the attachment from my computer
I am a Generac Dealer and long time electrician, recently we have had a surge of generator installs and are coming up with a few questions. There are several choices for Generac Automatic Transfer Switches (ATS). one of them is a SE rated switch(service entrance). the SE rated has a Service Rated 200 amp breaker for the sake of this conversation, then there is the 200 amp no SE rated switch without a breaker incorporated.
For the purpose of this conversation, we are going to assume a 22kw Gen for a whole house application, as opposed to just selected loads.
In some panels, we can take the feed from the meter when it is accessible enough where we can splice the meter feed and run it to the Non SE rated switch without a breaker and bring the conductors back and feed it to the input side of the existing main breaker. basically placing the transfer switch schematically between the meter and the main breaker.
Also, again on a whole house application, when the feeder from the meter side of the panel is a cable but there is not enough space to bring the 3/0 or 4/0 and feed into the main breaker, we can remove the main breaker and eliminate it, use UL listed Polaris connectors and take the meeter feed to the SE rated ATS, and bring back the output side of the ATS with the 200 amp main service rated breaker to the buss on the existing main and backfeed using a Eaton Cutler Hammer BRS225- 225 amp rated Lug Block and the whole panels is now fed by the gen and the utility when on utility power, and the gen when there is a blackout and the grid is isolated.
According to Generac this is perfectly fine, but during a permit application process, the plan checker was telling me that is modifying the panel and it voids the UL listing.
Same plan checker was saying that if we penetrate a panel on the back it also voids the UL listing of the panel, same with on the top or anywhere where there is not a manufacturer's knockout!!! what about panels without a knockout? I have seen those in commercial applications if I recall. when I asked him that, he didn't have an answer aside from "that's how we do it here".
To be clear on the penetrations, the panels are flush mount and the penetrations are made from the inside of the garage wall, so weather should not be a question.
This seems silly since the panel is not modified in any way, Polaris is an approved method and UL listed. The Main panel, to my knowledge, is an approved enclosure and therefore a proper splice should not be an issue.
Also... why do we have knockout tools if we can make knockouts?
Can anyone help me out here? thanks in advance.. I have marked up some photos and have attached.
hope I didn't ramble on ... thanks again.
I dont seem be able to make the attachment from my computer
