repairs by non certified persons

[trebat1]

can a hvac tech replace wires in a rooftop that were burnt off (240 volt)without having electricians certification

 

[ryan_618]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

Not in my state (Utah).

Besides, I think if wires have been damaged, a qualified electrician should be consulted. Why put put a band-aid on a tumor?

An electrician needs to be involved in order to properly determine the extent of the damage and what caused it.

 

[iwire]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

That all depends on where you live.

A rule like that is not in the NEC.

That type of thing is up to the state, city, town or county, it is up to them who they allow to do electric work.

In my state a oil burner tech can do wiring on the load side of the disconnect for an oil burner.

HVAC techs seem to be free to work on the load side of the disconnects of those kinds of units.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

Permitting them to do this is about the same as allowing a plumber to rewire a water heater.NEC does not deal with what exactly is a qualified electrician.AHJ makes this call.IMO i don't think they should do any electrical work.Where do we draw the line? Should we allow a handyman to replace receptacles,install fans,maybe add a outlet? I think that all electrical work should be done at least under a EC license.If for no other reason than to have insurance coverage.Most states do not allow a journeyman to do any electrical work unless under a master so why allow others who have no license at all

 

[wildman]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

"can a hvac tech replace wiring without elec. certification".....sure, if the homeowner permits it! "should he" .....maybe! "is it legal"...depends on the AHJ! One sure way to find out is to "turn him in". If you are really concerned about this person, find out all you can and report him/her! What does AHJ say about it? Around here, HVAC contractors have a code to follow also! Let the hvac tech know you are investigating the case! good luck!

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

Jim there is that stirring again LOL

 

[pierre]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

The NEC does have a definition for Qualified Person. Osha has very strict rules about qualified persons, and one of the rules permits the employer to determine who is qualified for the specific work to be performed.
I do not see how the AHJ can determine who is qualified or not, a license to perform electrical work does not mean you are qualified to do all types of work. There are some licensed electricians who have never worked on industrial locations and could very well not be qualified to perform work in that location. As well how many times have we read on this forum that industrial electricians are not too sure about residential work. It is all relative.

Licensed and Qualified are not the same!!

Pierre

 

[hurk27]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

A good case in point is we had a industrial electrician who now owned a office building. he decided to do his own wiring. in control wiring you don't have multi-wire circuits but he thought that by switching the neutral to a bunch of fluorescent lights he could save on how many switches he needed, switch one neutral and control two circuits Hmmm. boy what a mess. he had ballast exploding out of the fixtures. needless to say after the replacement of the ballast and the cost of rewiring the place he now knows he should of left it alone. The damage that was done could have been even worse as it could have cause a fire. but it takes something like to happen to open their eyes.

 

[wildman]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

use to be a newsletter to come out every couple of months around here.....written by the licensing board.....people caught doing those no..no's....practicing without a license, helping an unlicensed contractor to perform elec. work....performing below standard work...etc. this letter included fines and/or dicipline taken! probation, suspension of license, schooling, etc. Haven't received letter in over a year! wonder if this became unlawful! This was for all trade licenses...not just elec. wondering if any one out there has received this type of letter? Letter included persons name and city of residence! I thought it was a fairly good way to watch out for those scallywags!!!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

And then we get the owner /builders that have a right to build a house including all the trades.They are indeed the EC for that house and in some states could build one a year.They often find a unlicensed electrician (in capacity of a helper)that wire the entire house and it is legal.

 

[hurk27]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

Jim Check this out: This is out of the Indiana state statue's Look at the last one (D)

IC 36-7-8-3
Establishment of building, heating, ventilating, electrical, plumbing, and sanitation standards; ordinances
Sec. 3. (a) The legislative body of a county having a county department of buildings or joint city-county building department may, by ordinance, adopt building, heating, ventilating, air conditioning, electrical, plumbing, and sanitation standards for unincorporated areas of the county. These standards take effect only on the legislative body's receipt of written approval from the fire prevention and building safety commission.
(b) An ordinance adopted under this section must be based on occupancy, and it applies to:
(1) the construction, alteration, equipment, use, occupancy, location, and maintenance of buildings, structures, and appurtenances that are on land or over water and are:
(A) erected after the ordinance takes effect; and
(B) if expressly provided by the ordinance, existing when the ordinance takes effect;
(2) conversions of buildings and structures, or parts of them, from one occupancy classification to another; and
(3) the movement or demolition of buildings, structures, and equipment for the operation of buildings and structures.
(c) The rules of the fire prevention and building safety commission are the minimum standards upon which ordinances adopted under this section must be based.
(d) An ordinance adopted under this section does not apply to private homes that are built by individuals and used for their own occupancy.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

Hurk if I'm not mis reading this i think an owner could build without even a permit.I had a friend that taught me the loopholes to build as many houses as i felt like without any license.I used the system for several years .The trick is the house is for there own use but they can always sell it.In reality they often are built better than they need be.And as long as they are properly inspected there would be no problem.Can a county inspector really inspect everything ?
We have electrical helpers wiring houses every day and we all know the entire system can not be inspected, box after box,wire after wire,just is not enough time to do that.Who will inspect the wiring in a can that is 18 feet up? and you know the helper got that job.The system has flaws and always will have.

 

[hurk27]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

Yes you are reading it right.
We still have local AHJ's that tell home owners that they can't do there own wiring but as you see it's right there in the print. My sister just used this law to get a town off her back when she was upgrading her house. Of course I did the electrical but they were trying to make her install things that was not required. Like upgrading the service to a 200 amp when every thing in the house was gas max load reading I got was about 40 amps on each leg and this was with the A/C running and every light in the house on. she has the old GE low voltage control system and they told her it was not allowed like N/T Then they told her she had to build a new roof because a flat roof wasn't allowed and that was it she told them to take her to court. needless to say with this law she won. The AHJ was told to stay away.

[ December 31, 2003, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[jimwalker]

Re: repairs by non certified persons

Down here they still must pull all the permits and on permit in space for GC AND EC they type OWNER. They do get an extra close inspection.