Replace inside service with outside service

[carter3933]

I'm looking at a job to quote and do. I have not done this type before, see what you guys suggest.

The house was built in 60's I think. It has a 100A service on inside wall with a split panel. Owner wants a 200 A service mounted on outside for new heat/ac units and to feed old service.

Can I mount the new service with hole in back to make joints with old service cables going into side of house, or do I need to mount a box for splices at old meter box and mount new service beside that box?

And how much should I charge?


Thanks,
Ron

 

[BryanMD]

Can I mount the new service with hole in back to make joints with old service cables going into side of house,
... Probably not.

or do I need to mount a box for splices at old meter box and mount new service beside that box?
... Probably so (or something similar).

And how much should I charge?
... More than the gear and time add up to.


Without seeing it I'd lean this way
200A meter/panel combo on outside
all new grounds
feed new hvac etc from there
sub feed to to existing panel location
(and perhaps re-use that panel and the wire)

 

[220/221]

Can I mount the new service with hole in back to make joints with old service cables going into side of house, or do I need to mount a box for splices at old meter box and mount new service beside that box?

Sure you can. If the cable is long enough just stub it into the new combo panel. It will look better and eliminate the splices.

And how much should I charge?

If you don't know that, maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sure you can. If the cable is long enough just stub it into the new combo panel. It will look better and eliminate the splices.

Be careful here. Some areas will require you to replace the wire with a 4 wire cable. I will assume it is 3 wire now. If it is in metal conduit then you are okay and good to go.

If you don't know that, maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

This is not a helpful comment. Many of us ask questions we don't know.

 

[220/221]

Be careful here. Some areas will require you to replace the wire with a 4 wire cable. I will assume it is 3 wire now. If it is in metal conduit then you are okay and good to go.

Ahhh...very good point.

This is not a helpful comment. Many of us ask questions we don't know.

I might of saved his life or kept him from losing money.

 

[ceb58]

How long can the HO go with out power? Is the meter feed overhead or underground? What is the siding, brick, wood or vinyl? I just did one this weekend I set new 200a meter/combo, new riser, stubed into crawl space with pvc, 2 new G rods, ran 4 wire out of crawl space into basement, set new 200a sub panel. Inspector came today inspected the work. I will now set up service change with Progress. New panel will be hot all I will need to do is demo old panel, pull circ. into new sub panel HO will be down about 1-1 1/2 hrs. Around 2300.00.

 

[jaylectricity]

And how much should I charge?

If you don't know that, maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

This is not a helpful comment. Many of us ask questions we don't know.

I might of saved his life or kept him from losing money.

So nobody that hasn't ever done anything should avoid doing something? I guess you support barbarianism and you oppose the likes of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and Thomas Edison.

carter3933 ::: You should charge more than your typical service, add any extra materials and add an hour or two of labor for all the time you have spent worrying about how to accomplish this job.

 

[George Stolz]

Let's be nice, folks. It's a simple question (-ish ) about how much to charge, no reason to belittle someone for asking.

Carter, what's your ballpark estimate?

I agree with the above, who said cutting a hole in the back of the service would be a bad idea. I'm not going to go scrounging for a reference, that just seems like common sense to me. I'd say you need to figure out a more conventional way of refeeding/splicing in the new panel.

If you search the forum for "service upgrade" you'll probably pull up a number of recent threads with pictures of some good upgrades. Aim high with your installation standards, and charge accordingly, IMO. No reason to cobble something together you won't be proud of in the end.

 

[220/221]

Coming into the back of a service is a bad idea?

Every house in AZ has cables coming into thru the back. I am pretty sure that's what the KO's are for.


Asking how much to charge for a service change just raises red flags to me.

If you are going to attempt it you should have SOME idea of how to do it, SOME idea of what materials to use and SOME idea of how long it would take.

So nobody that hasn't ever done anything should avoid doing something? I guess you support barbarianism and you oppose the likes of Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and Thomas Edison.

That's quite a leap there pal. I was only talking about this guy. It's a gut feeling, that's all. I've been wrong before and I will certainly be wrong again. It's simply one man's opinion.

 

[carter3933]

Guess I asked the question wrong. Just thought I'd try this forum out.

Maybe I should just read and not ask questions.

 

[220/221]

Maybe I should just read and not ask questions.

Don't let some cranky old guy scare you off.

You have to sort thru the responses and take the good with the bad :wink:

 

[growler]

Maybe I should just read and not ask questions.

You should feel free to ask all the questions you wish to!
It's a free country. Just don't expect all the answers to be positive.

Remember that all of these answers are merely opinions. Never assume that anything is correct without double checking.

When someone says that maybe you should not atempt to do a job it may not be a put down. It really is a good time to ask yourself if you feel qualified.

I normally always ask this very question of myself when I come upon something that I haven't done before. I normally just gather information until I do feel comfortable doing said job. Every once in a great while I do have to admit that I'm really out of my area of expertise and will pass on a job due to a lack of eperience and training in a certain area.

You are doing a service change and there is really plenty of information that's readily accessible on that job. So good luck.

When it comes to price, charge enough to make money and then make corrections as needed on the next job. :grin: :grin:

 

[George Stolz]

Coming into the back of a service is a bad idea?

Every house in AZ has cables coming into thru the back. I am pretty sure that's what the KO's are for.

That is not what I visualized when I first read the description - I pictured a hole in the back of the service with splices in it (presumably in the wall).

Obviously you can use a KO in the back of a can for cables/conductors to pass through; but not splices. I probably misread the original post - it seemed pretty bizarre, I should have thought on it more.

Asking how much to charge for a service change just raises red flags to me.

If you are going to attempt it you should have SOME idea of how to do it, SOME idea of what materials to use and SOME idea of how long it would take.

220, the discussion of "what to charge" occupies a good 50% of the discussions of this area of the forum - it's in the title, for Pete's sake.

It's simply one man's opinion.

It's not coming off as an opinion, it's coming off as an insult. You're a pretty direct guy, so I'm giving you direct feedback.

Guess I asked the question wrong. Just thought I'd try this forum out.

Maybe I should just read and not ask questions.

Please, do not refrain from commenting and asking questions. That is the entire reason the forum is here.

Communication is a two-way process. If I misunderstood you, let me rephrase: yes, you can use the old panel as a junction box for new homeruns coming from your new service.

 

[ceb58]

These are some shot of the upgrade I just completed. As stated you need to know cost of material, what mark up to add and rate to charge. Figure your self 6- 8 hrs. Good Luck and don't let the "negative" seaming responses deter you from asking questions or learning something new.

 

[Okie Sparky]

I've been right where you are, when I started in business for myself. A friend of mine that used to be an estimator, showed me the ropes and told me about a book. This is just one way to estimate. The book, Labor Units Manual by Durand & Associates, has a labor rate for most material. Tally up the cost of your material, amount of time, amount of time by labor rate, add O & P and profit margin. This will get you pretty close. But always go with your gut feeling. You may want to add to this labor depending on the difficulty of the particular job at hand. Your biggest asset is still an accurate material take-off and your gut feeling. Lots of Luck.

 

[Minuteman]

Most of the inside to outside (RT) change outs I have done are due to the panel being in the bedroom closet. Like when the service has to be upgraded. (Usually, something like non payment of electric bill over 30 days, or the panel is absolute and the HO wants it changed).

We demo the old meter can (pan) and place the new RT panel on the nipple. The new meter can is installed to the side or on top of the RT can. Usually we replace the riser if it's a overhead service. Next we install THHN/THWN conductors through the nipple and convert the old panel into a J-box and remove the old bus. Cut a piece of metal flashing and pop rivet it to cover the old breaker slots. Most houses will need a ground rod.

This whole operation takes a journeyman and helper about 4 hours. Maybe 6 for just one man.

My price. About 7 hours + the parts I mentioned and permit fee.

Oh, and some jurisdiction require smokes and GFCI's to be installed in the home. I usually try to add this to the homes that do not require it, if I can.

 

[electricman2]

Be careful here. Some areas will require you to replace the wire with a 4 wire cable. I will assume it is 3 wire now. If it is in metal conduit then you are okay and good to go.

The jurisdictions where I work will not require this if buildings construction and location of interior panel would require an excessive amount of work to replace. Its a judgement call by AHJ.

 

[carter3933]

That looks almost exactly like what I'm working with, brick house and overhang.

Thanks for all of the positive comments. Seems like a new person to the forum has to give a resume before asking a question. As I'm getting older I'm trying to cut back on my "smart" comments, and I had some.

I think it would be best to speak with inspector to confirm what he likes in this type of job.