replacement receptacles need to be TR?

[DaveBowden]

Doing a remodel and the homeowner wants us to replace all the existing receptacles with decora style ones. I know the new receptacles we install for the remodel have to be tamper resistant, but do the replacements for the existing ones have to be TR, too?
406.3 (D) Replacements ( 2008 code in use here) doesn't require it. However, 406.11 would require it. Which section should govern this?

 

[ptonsparky]

IMO I would not split hairs on this. All TR and be done with it. Not worth the $ difference to keep track of detail like that. Have you asked the AHJ?

 

[al hildenbrand]

Doing a remodel and the homeowner wants us to replace all the existing receptacles with decora style ones. I know the new receptacles we install for the remodel have to be tamper resistant, but do the replacements for the existing ones have to be TR, too?
406.3 (D) Replacements ( 2008 code in use here) doesn't require it. However, 406.11 would require it. Which section should govern this?

2008 NEC 406.11 is for new receptacle outlet installs. 2008 NEC 406.3(D) is for replacement devices for existing receptacle outlets.

FYI. The 2011 equivalent of 406.11 changes to 406.12. And 2011 406.3(D) adds, in addition to TR, AFCI for replacement devices in existing receptacle outlets.

 

[LEO2854]

Doing a remodel and the homeowner wants us to replace all the existing receptacles with decora style ones. I know the new receptacles we install for the remodel have to be tamper resistant, but do the replacements for the existing ones have to be TR, too?
406.3 (D) Replacements ( 2008 code in use here) doesn't require it. However, 406.11 would require it. Which section should govern this?

Just use the TR's they really don't cost that much more.

 

[jumper]

And 2011 406.3(D) adds, in addition to TR, AFCI for replacement devices in existing receptacle outlets.

Yes, but not until 2014. This is at the bottom of that section.

This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.

 

[iwire]

My own opinion is simply this.

If I am installing a receptacle today, todays code applies regardless of a specific section covering replacements.


I don't understand how I could replace a old receptacle with one that does not meet the latest code.

 

[electricguy61]

[/B]

Yes, but not until 2014. This is at the bottom of that section.

Oh boy, more AFCI headaches!.

Who thinks this stuff up? Oh yeah, the manufacturers, and contractors that don't work on older homes.

What are we supposed to do when a receptacle on a multiwire branch circuit fails. The branch circuit feeder is supposed to be protected unless it's MC or better, so you theoretically you couldn't use a AFCI receptacle to feed the circuit.

UGGGHHHHH

 

[al hildenbrand]

Yes, but not until 2014. This is at the bottom of that section.

Yes, but note that the OP is on the 2008 NEC five years after much of the country started on the 2008. I suspect that "late onset clause" will have expired (less than 10 months from now) by the time the OP's jurisdiction moves on to the next edition of the NEC.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I believe in the 2008 NEC we were not required to use TR for replacement however it is hard to find a residential grade receptacle that isn't TR. As others have said just install the TR but if you have a bunch of older receptacles you want to get rid of then I would ask the inspector how he sees it as some jurisdictions feel that if you change it it must be TR.

 

[al hildenbrand]

What are we supposed to do when a receptacle on a multiwire branch circuit fails? The branch circuit feeder is supposed to be protected unless it's MC or better, so you theoretically you couldn't use a AFCI receptacle to feed the circuit

That's an interesting question. Here in Minnesota, the AFCI receptacle has been available to buy and install since last Fall, and we're under the 2011 NEC, so we're figuring out how to do it.

The rules in 210.12(B) are not real clear, the way they are written. Take a look at this thread for a discussion about where the AFCI receptacle is to be placed.

 

[Eddy Current]

TR?

 

[al hildenbrand]

TR?

Tamper Resistant.

 

[electricguy61]

That's an interesting question. Here in Minnesota, the AFCI receptacle has been available to buy and install since last Fall, and we're under the 2011 NEC, so we're figuring out how to do it.

The rules in 210.12(B) are not real clear, the way they are written. Take a look at this thread for a discussion about where the AFCI receptacle is to be placed.

That thread gave me a headache:blink:

 

[al hildenbrand]

That thread gave me a headache:blink:

Sorry.

Nothing like ambiguous NEC language to confuse things.

In this one case, I actually think the ambiguity is deliberate, and the CMP intended to show, by their choice of words, that one can install the receptacle type AFCI in several different places.