Replacing a Fan Capicitor

[Little Bill]

I have been working on a ceiling fan w/light that has a built in remote with wall control. It turns out the receiver on the fan is bad, or part of it anyway. You can see that the capacitor is bad. The problem is the capacitor is part of a control board. The fan has a lifetime warranty so I had the lighting place order the parts. When the parts came in they weren't the same as the OEM parts. What they sent was a solid state fan speed control. From what I can find out that is what replaces the control board. What I don't know is unless it has a capacitor built in then one needs to be added. The wiring diagram doesn't show a capacitor but something has to control the speeds.

I connected the new parts up on the floor as the fan is mounted 14' up and I didn't want to hang/rehang the fan. I was able to get the new wall control to work the lights but not the fan. I've put in some pictures that I hope will help. I'll describe what each is and what is new vs old. What I need to know is do I need to add a capacitor or is there a way to wire this if the new receiver has a built in cap.

Old receiver that controls the fan/lights



Wall control, this actually is the same as the old. Only difference is the old receiver had dip switches that you set to match the wall control. This new wall control also has dip switches but not the new receiver. Supposedly it is a "learning" receiver & wall control



Showing the dip switches on old receiver



showing bad capacitor



New receiver showing the wiring diagram. The receiver has line hot, line neutral, load to motor, load neutral, upper light, & lower light. With nothing for a capacitor. The fan motor has a gray, pink/purple, yellow, & red coming out. I think that's right but I forgot to take a picture of the fan motor.



So if anyone can help me out here I would appreciate it.

 

[Little Bill]

Bump

 

[GoldDigger]

If the fan has more than two leads on the motor, then the new control is not compatible.
The old receiver appears to have been assembled from discrete components to allow it to fit and to have minimum cost. Since then the cost of integrated assemblies has gone way down. I am sure all of the needed parts are in the receiver module itself.
If the fan motor has only two leads, then the replacement receiver should work. Are you trying to use the old multipin connector or using new wire nuts?

It is likely that when the old capacitor blew it took some other components with it, so I guess that sort of repair is not supported by the manufacturer.

 

[RLyons]

I had a problem finding a 3 speed pull switch to control a fan.
If I remember correctly it took a combination of wires from the fan to run on high and have the new wireless which I used to replace the pull chain.
I'm not sure what the combo was but you have gray, pink/purple, yellow, & red?

So example would be if say gray was neutral

gray & Pink/purp gave low speed
gray & pink/purp Tied with Yellow gave medium speed
Gray & Red gave High speed

So finding neutral would be first priority the combination to get to high speed to let the new controller take over speed control and it worked.

 

[Little Bill]

If the fan has more than two leads on the motor, then the new control is not compatible.
The old receiver appears to have been assembled from discrete components to allow it to fit and to have minimum cost. Since then the cost of integrated assemblies has gone way down. I am sure all of the needed parts are in the receiver module itself.
If the fan motor has only two leads, then the replacement receiver should work. Are you trying to use the old multipin connector or using new wire nuts?

It is likely that when the old capacitor blew it took some other components with it, so I guess that sort of repair is not supported by the manufacturer.

I could get zero help from the mfg as the company (Ellington) was bought out by another company. So I just tried what the rep said. I cut off the multipin connector and used wire nuts. I figured out all the wires except the ones that obviously went to the motor. Looking at it now I think I could have just replaced the cap on the circuit board and been done. I don't think anything else is damaged as the fan had only lost speed control. If I remember right it would only run on low and maybe medium.

Now unless I can figure out how to connect a cap to the new receiver I will have to try and find a replacement cap the same as the cap that is blown and wire nut all the connections back as I don't have any of those pin connectors. Then use the old receiver.

 

[GoldDigger]

I could get zero help from the mfg as the company (Ellington) was bought out by another company. So I just tried what the rep said. I cut off the multipin connector and used wire nuts. I figured out all the wires except the ones that obviously went to the motor. Looking at it now I think I could have just replaced the cap on the circuit board and been done. I don't think anything else is damaged as the fan had only lost speed control. If I remember right it would only run on low and maybe medium.

Now unless I can figure out how to connect a cap to the new receiver I will have to try and find a replacement cap the same as the cap that is blown and wire nut all the connections back as I don't have any of those pin connectors. Then use the old receiver.

If the fan motor has multiple leads for speed control, you need to identify the two leads which were used for the highest speed. Those will be the two leads that you will connect to the new controller. I do not see any obvious reason to even suspect that adding a capacitor to the new controller will do any good at all.
I suppose that the capacitor may have been a reactance capacitor for a starting winding for the fan I suppose. But I thought that fan motors were shaded pole or other type which did not require an off-phase starting winding.

 

[Little Bill]

If the fan motor has multiple leads for speed control, you need to identify the two leads which were used for the highest speed. Those will be the two leads that you will connect to the new controller. I do not see any obvious reason to even suspect that adding a capacitor to the new controller will do any good at all.
I suppose that the capacitor may have been a reactance capacitor for a starting winding for the fan I suppose. But I thought that fan motors were shaded pole or other type which did not require an off-phase starting winding.

I'm beginning to think that this new receiver/controller only replaces the portion of the control board that had the dip switches and the rest of the control board needs to remain. Which takes me back to just finding a replacement for the blown cap and tying everything back together. Don't think I even need the new control. It all boils down to a bad cap!:rant:
Which is what I told them to start with. Then they send this controller which has nothing to do with the blown cap!

 

[iwire]

I would have told them they need a new fan.

The time spent tinkering around will quickly exceed the cost of the fan.

 

[Little Bill]

I would have told them they need a new fan.

The time spent tinkering around will quickly exceed the cost of the fan.

I've told them umpteen times!
The thing is these fans cost around $500 and there are two of them in the same room. She said if she replaced one that she would have to replace the other as well as they don't make them anymore in that style.
With 14' ceilings they want fans that can be reversed remotely is why she doesn't just but two cheap fans and be done with it.

 

[GoldDigger]

One interesting possibility is that the fan motor shorted out and that blew the capacitor.
Before going any farther I would carefully verify that the motor works when directly powered from AC.
Then if that checks out I would measure the output on the two fan outputs of the controller without the fan motor connected.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I've told them umpteen times!
The thing is these fans cost around $500 and there are two of them in the same room. She said if she replaced one that she would have to replace the other as well as they don't make them anymore in that style.
With 14' ceilings they want fans that can be reversed remotely is why she doesn't just but two cheap fans and be done with it.

bill......
there is nothing wrong with the fan.
the problem is that you aren't charging enough
per hour to help her make a sane decision.

double your hourly rate, and that capacitor problem
will fade away.....

i'm good at troubleshooting these things. trust me.

 

[Little Bill]

One interesting possibility is that the fan motor shorted out and that blew the capacitor.
Before going any farther I would carefully verify that the motor works when directly powered from AC.
Then if that checks out I would measure the output on the two fan outputs of the controller without the fan motor connected.

The motor was running, just wouldn't run on high (and I think med).

 

[iwire]

bill......
there is nothing wrong with the fan.
the problem is that you aren't charging enough
per hour to help her make a sane decision.

double your hourly rate, and that capacitor problem
will fade away.....

i'm good at troubleshooting these things. trust me.

:lol::thumbsup:

 

[kwired]

If the fan motor has multiple leads for speed control, you need to identify the two leads which were used for the highest speed. Those will be the two leads that you will connect to the new controller. I do not see any obvious reason to even suspect that adding a capacitor to the new controller will do any good at all.
I suppose that the capacitor may have been a reactance capacitor for a starting winding for the fan I suppose. But I thought that fan motors were shaded pole or other type which did not require an off-phase starting winding.

One interesting possibility is that the fan motor shorted out and that blew the capacitor.
Before going any farther I would carefully verify that the motor works when directly powered from AC.
Then if that checks out I would measure the output on the two fan outputs of the controller without the fan motor connected.

The motor was running, just wouldn't run on high (and I think med).

Wouldn't run on high, maybe medium when original blown capacitor was still installed if I understand correctly.

I thought you tried to hook up new control sent to you with no capacitor in the circuit and the fan wouldn't run at all. Makes sense if the fan motor is a PSC motor which I think most are.

It needs a capacitor to create a phase shift between two windings to create some torque. They often use two or three value capacitors to get multiple capacitance values depending on how they are switched into the circuit, this is what determines running speed. No matter what speed is selected there is at least a part of that capacitor in the circuit though.

The motor winding is typically much better designed then those capacitors, so don't think a motor failure has to happen to take out the cheaply made capacitor. Most any lighting and ceiling fan supplier can get you the capacitor you pictured, you just need a little information on it. If it has a cat number on it that may be all you really need. If you don't get exact replacement - it probably still works, just may not be exact same speeds as the original.

 

[kwired]

Went back and looked at picture of your blown capacitor, with only three leads and two of the same capacitance values, that motor must have one speed (likely the low speed) that runs with no capacitor in the circuit, medium speed with one of the 6Uf components in the circuit and high speed with both 6Uf components in the circuit.

If your fan only ran at low speed - both segments of the capacitor are blown out and it doesn't contribute needed capacitance to the circuit to get medium and high speeds to work.

 

[Little Bill]

Went back and looked at picture of your blown capacitor, with only three leads and two of the same capacitance values, that motor must have one speed (likely the low speed) that runs with no capacitor in the circuit, medium speed with one of the 6Uf components in the circuit and high speed with both 6Uf components in the circuit.

If your fan only ran at low speed - both segments of the capacitor are blown out and it doesn't contribute needed capacitance to the circuit to get medium and high speeds to work.

I found a capacitor, but had to find it on-line. Ordered it and should be here in a couple of days. I think I'm going to omit the new receiver and just put the cap on the old one. If that works, I'm done with it!