Replacing FPE Panel

[jmellc]

My heart is joyful tonight, for a change. I got the nod to replace a Federal Pacific panel. Will replace it with a CH ch 42 ckt panel.

Much as I hate Federal, I do understand why so many were installed. When I worked in Goldsboro, NC, there was 1 supply house there and that's what they sold. You had to buy it or go way out of town. Some customers couldn't or wouldn't pay for better quality.

But this 200 amp FPE was installed in a really nice house in 1 of our old money neighborhoods. I can't believe the EC was having to pinch pennies on that job. The house was built in 1986. I don't remember exact timeline, but wasn't FPE out of business by then? So likely, the EC had it in his shop somewhere.

Maybe I'm too critical but I can't see why a craftsman would install such junk when he had better choices available. FPE was known as junk ever since I can remember and certainly in mid 80's no one could say he didn't know. Most brands have been sold here for years on end.

 

[GUNNING]

People dont change

People dont change

If its the same owner you are going to find out why he put it in.

 

[Ruff-N]

Some customers wouldn't pay for better quality. .

That is due to the big orange and big blue box stores and the fact that DIYs say "Anyone can do electrical work its not that hard" When I was an EC it was "Gee mister, the village idiot will upgrade my sevice for a whole lot less than that" And now we see the results. One been I am no longer an EC cause I can't compete with the village idiot, he is undercutting everyone .

 

[charlietuna]

Generally a contractor will shop at a favorite supply house and purchase one of the switchgear brands they carry. Any most residential contractors don't want to carry every manufacturers breakers to service their accounts. So they pick one and stay with it ! Saves a lot of investment dollars and space in the service truck ! Although FPE has had problems in the past, i only remember one time they actually had a recall, and that was on large frame size three phase breakers. Being in the infrared scanning business since 1989, i find no more problems with FPE products as any other manufacturer.

 

[growler]

Maybe I'm too critical but I can't see why a craftsman would install such junk when he had better choices available.

Never look a "Gift Horse" in the mouth.

I once new a mechanic that said he put his kids through college because people were dumb enough to buy a certain automobile. He didn't complain.

 

[macmikeman]

And now we see the results. One been I am no longer an EC cause I can't compete with the village idiot, he is undercutting everyone .

You weren't cut out for it in the first place... There has always been sidejobers and "village idiots" undercutting EC's. Marketing to those who do not proscribe to the cheap is best formula is key.

 

[satcom]

You weren't cut out for it in the first place... There has always been sidejobers and "village idiots" undercutting EC's. Marketing to those who do not proscribe to the cheap is best formula is key.

Yes, they are always out there, and they will continue to under cut jobs, most of them have full time jobs with good pay and medical and vacation, and some of them even have nice retirement packages, so they don't want to leave their nice nest, they can under bid any ligit EC, because they don't have all the expenses of operating a business, and usually don't even pay their share of taxes, leaving the rest of us to pay more, some of the EC's around here, turn these guys in if they catch them operating without permits, but that will not change the picture, more will just come along, and fill the void, so dealing with customers that look for good service, and companies that will be there for the long run, will pay better and will help you grow.

 

[Ruff-N]

You weren't cut out for it in the first place... There has always been sidejobers and "village idiots" undercutting EC's. Marketing to those who do not proscribe to the cheap is best formula is key.

Thats a bold statement, how do you know who is and is not cutout for X:roll:. My decsion to close my business, as the electrical business in my area is very, very competative, was based on a totaly differant reason. But I did very well for a small shop I could have kept it up, and competing with the ECs who under cut just to get a job, but in the end now that i see how things are the economy I believe would have put me out of business. I decided not put up with running a business, great descion, and the POCO I work for keeps me plenty busy, great benifits, I really enjoy what I do and now all those who chose to stay in the business be it owners or workers are really hurting. But you are entitled to your opinion and i respect that.

 

[Ruff-N]

Yes, they are always out there, and they will continue to under cut jobs, most of them have full time jobs with good pay and medical and vacation, and some of them even have nice retirement packages, so they don't want to leave their nice nest, they can under bid any ligit EC, because they don't have all the expenses of operating a business, and usually don't even pay their share of taxes, leaving the rest of us to pay more, some of the EC's around here, turn these guys in if they catch them operating without permits, but that will not change the picture, more will just come along, and fill the void, so dealing with customers that look for good service, and companies that will be there for the long run, will pay better and will help you grow.

Very well put Satcom

 

[macmikeman]

Thats a bold statement, how do you know who is and is not cutout for X:roll:. My decsion to close my business, as the electrical business in my area is very, very competative, was based on a totaly differant reason. But I did very well for a small shop I could have kept it up, and competing with the ECs who under cut just to get a job, but in the end now that i see how things are the economy I believe would have put me out of business. I decided not put up with running a business, great descion, and the POCO I work for keeps me plenty busy, great benifits, I really enjoy what I do and now all those who chose to stay in the business be it owners or workers are really hurting. But you are entitled to your opinion and i respect that.

Ruff-n please don't get me wrong. I'm happy for you finding a nice employment. I based my statement entirely on your non smiley face icon at the end of your statement. That says a books worth of what you probably encountered as we all encounter the same. Fact remains though, it is a very tough and competitive world out there and EC's who are able to locate and hang on to the type of customers who do not base the decision on price only are ones who specifically direct their efforts to achieve that goal. That is what makes them "cut out for it", not some special abilities or cleverness or other attribute. I also think those who stubbornly stick out contracting if or when there is no real profit or benefit to it are not the wisest ones in the bunch. You were wise to do what you did. Being "not cut out for it" was not meant to insult, trust me, it is meant more as a subtile pun at the too stubborn to do what you did in the face of economic reality.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

You weren't cut out for it in the first place... There has always been sidejobers and "village idiots" undercutting EC's. Marketing to those who do not proscribe to the cheap is best formula is key.

I just finished up repairs on a DIY project. some on had ran new type MC cable typed of old box. at some of the boxes the used 1/2 EMT connector and tapped around the m/c cable to make it fit in the connector. other places they taped the the end of the M/C cable going into the box with no connector. at where some one added a new out in the garage by using a handy box and 2-#10 than wires going to th e light fixture. no physical protection for single conductor wire


DIY on same project installed 2 wire zip cord . ran from outside front porch light along porch ceiling to a handy box with a 3 wire duplex
the zip cord Had been secured using tack driven right Thur the middle of the Zip cord.

 

[220/221]

I installed FPE panels (not my idea) in 1984 in a 100 unit condo complex.


I couldn't believe that the stuff was still being made/sold.

That was also the first time I'd seen polybutylene plumbing :roll:

 

[jmellc]

I'm sure the owner had no idea what was good or not. I didn't catch whether her family was 1st in the house or not. HO often buys a house after developer builds it or hires a GC to build it and has no clue to specify brands. She was more than willing to pay for a better product.

Original EC had to have been the one to choose FPE. But, in this city, he could have gotten most any brand.

Someone said he'd not seen any more problems with FPE than any other brand. Doing service work, I saw lots of problems with it. Charred wiring from years of overloaded ckts that didn't trip breakers. Or flickering lights & equipment problems because of breakers not holding in well.

 

[jmellc]

I installed FPE panels (not my idea) in 1984 in a 100 unit condo complex.


I couldn't believe that the stuff was still being made/sold.

That was also the first time I'd seen polybutylene plumbing :roll:

Around here, lots of apartment projects got Zinsco panels. Some of the houses in my neighborhood got them too. I was "lucky", our's got GE. I'll get around to replacing it sometime. I like GE only slightly better than Zinsco and FPE.

All the Zinsco panels I've worked on were old when I got to them. They may have been sort of OK when new. But they sure didn't age well. The bus bars and breaker terminals would arc and burn after working loose.

A neighbor with same GE panel as mine called me for service. I checked the ckt and found nothing obvious. Tightened a few joints, redid a few backstabbed switches, etc. Still tripping. Put in a new breaker. All well til next day, started tripping again. Checked out again, nothing obvious again. Replaced with another new breaker, been OK for a year now. So the 1st new GE breaker was bad from the box.

I've found over the years that SD QO and CH CH are far and above other brands. I like Homeline too, haven't seen any problems with it yet.

 

[mxslick]

As skinny as the GE's are and the tiny hook that contacts the bus I don't trust them at all. How the heck can such a tiny unit contain enough conductive mass to avoid overheating?

 

[jmellc]

As skinny as the GE's are and the tiny hook that contacts the bus I don't trust them at all. How the heck can such a tiny unit contain enough conductive mass to avoid overheating?

For sure. That's part of why I don't much like combination 12/24, 24/36, etc. Make full size spaces and full size breakers. Better in every way, though it does require more space. And some panels will not hold a slim breaker or even a full size one securely.