replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

[j_braddock]

i am planning to have our old plug fuse type panel updated to the circuit breaker type.

i will be getting an electrician to do the job.

does anyone know what will be inspected once the new panel is in place? i have been asking around and keep getting different answers. i live in west tennessee and i am trying to plan a budget for this work. the last thing i need is the inspector to tell me that all the house wiring needs replacing before the power can be turned back on.

any advice from inspectors and others is greatly appreciated. thank you in advance.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

Hello and welcome. I am glad to hear that you are having an electrician do the job, that is a major task to undertake. To answer your question, the NEC is not a retro-active code. Your electrician will only have to make what he is doing legal, that is, the wiring of the panel. Hope this helps you,

 

[gregoryelectricinc]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

Keep in mind that that GEC will have to be updated/replaced. This will require acces to the water main in the house (if available). Some of these jobs that I have been involved in get a litle tricky if the basement has been finished.
Ryan is correct, the branch circuitry from the panel should not need upgrading. Good Luck to you,
Jim Johnson

 

[bill addiss]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

If there are a number of bad violations/unsafe conditions that are obvious to the Inspector you may have a bigger job on your hands.

The best way to find out what he will be looking for is to ask your local Inspector.

Bill

 

[bennie]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

I would check the past history of this fuse panel.
Check the present sizes. Look around for blown fuses.

A case can be made that changing the panel to a circuit breaker type, will expose any existing overloaded circuit.

The new service may not be compatible with loads served. The customer should be informed of this fact.

When a fuse panel gets replaced it is often due to the 15 amp circuits blowing 30 amp fuses.

 

[gregoryelectricinc]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

Bill and Bennie, Very good points. Most inspectors would require repairs to be made if there were serious safety concerns with existing branch circuits. I would definitly follow Bennie's lead and check to see if existing 14 gauge wiring is connected to 30 amp fuses. If this be the case, the new 15 amp breakers are very likely to trip often.

 

[Guest]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

When one hangs a new panel that includes the service and branch circuits it would behoove the installer to do a safety check of each circuit after energizing it. At minimum a basic check should be done on each circuit before leaving the property. Once you work on the head of the stream it would be good policy to check things downstream and make sure they are safe and good to go.

 

[goldstar]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

J,

The advice that's been posted so far is right on the money. The basics that will be inspected are :
a) new meter pan and mounting height in accordance with POCO requirements
b) service entrance attachments into and out of meter pan
c) ground rod(s)and attachment to panel
d) EGC to cold water main and jumped across water meter
e) bonding jumper on hot water heater
f) if CATV and telco made ground connections outside at their D-mark panels you'll have to re-attach them
g) marking and identifying circuits on the breaker panel door

I want to emphasize what Bennie mentioned regarding over fusing. This was commonplace years ago and the probable cause for many a fire. Many of these fuse panels were installed in residences utilizing the "six switch" rule where the service conductors entered an enclosure with a bank of 6 fuses and no main disconnect. (Can you imagine running a household today on only 6 circuits ?). As home owners and apartment dwellers began bringing home new appliances they began blowing fuses. Unable to run new circuits they simply over fused the circuits they needed and went on with their lives. (I've seen a 40 amp fuse on a 15 amp circuit at an apartment building in Newark, NJ). The wiring for that circuit (over time) has heated up to the point that the insulation has either broken down or became brittle and flaked off. An analogy that I often make is "if a person has vascular problems and goes to the hospital for a heart transplant, when they get home they still have vascular problems". Upgrading your electrical SERVICE doesn't upgrade your BRANCH CIRCUITS.

So, in addition to what the others have mentioned, if there are junction boxes close by where circuits can be split I would take that opportunity to split the circuit(s) and examine the wire.

 

[mikeholz2]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

Have you contacted your inspector yet? In our city, before the AHJ will sign off on the permit for a service panel replacement, the electrician must install:

Smoke alarms in all bedrooms.

A hard-wired smoke at bottom of basement steps.

A CO alarm in the hallway near the bedrooms.

Replace any non-GFCI recepts in kitchens, baths, garage, and outdoors with GFCI's.

All this is in addition to the items already mentioned in previous posts like water meter jumper, hot water tank bonding jumper, etc....

Mike

 

[bennie]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

Mike: I hope your city will reconsider the ordinance. All the added requirements do is make old panels stay in use forever, and the homeowners performing bootleg work.

Any upgrade of old systems should be encouraged, not carry all the attached cost baggage.

The old 15 amp circuits on 30 amp fuses will continue until the fire, and possibly the funeral.

[ September 30, 2003, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[j_braddock]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

thanks everyone,

all of the wiring in the house is 12 ga with 20 amp fuses.

some of the wire does have a small ground wire rather than the 12 ga conductor wire.

as pointed out, obvious violations will be a problem & everything will have to be fixed at the same time to pass inspection.

if i understand correctly, if the panel is replaced, only the work done will be inspected. does this mean the wire with the smaller ground can stay in place, and only the panel wiring will be inspected or will they look for every little thing through out the house?

thanks again.

 

[Guest]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

Even if not required it would behoove the electrician to perform a safety check on each circuit before and after energizing each circuit. Personally, I will not turn a handle on an unchecked circuit after upgrading a service or load-center. I wouldn't sleep well at night knowing a malingering circuit maleficence might be lurking on my watch.

 

[bobserrano]

Re: replacing old plug fuse panels - what will be inspected

As a building inspector myself, the best advice I can think of giving you is to go down to your local building dept. with your electrician and ask to speak with the electrical inspector. Be ready to listen carefully and take notes. The inspector should be willing to give you all the information needed to pass inspection.You can get a lot of good information from these forums but unfortunately some of the information may not apply in your area. Different jurisdictions have different requirements. The best way to get on the bad side of your inspector is to do an installation that does not comply in your area and tell the inspector "That is the way I was told to do it in one of the forums"