Replacing panels in closets

[jaylectricity]

I live in an apartment where the circuit panels for each apartment were installed in the coat closet near the front door (near the common hallway). They are Federal Pacific breakers. There are 34 units.

I thought about trying to strike a deal with the owner to replace all the panels with something a little safer but realized that I probably wouldn't be able to simply replace them. For now this is hypothetical, I'd be interested in knowing what you guys think.

Looking at the illustration, in your opinion:

1. What's the best way to move the panel with minimal damage to the walls?
2. With the front door opening to a common hallway, would I be better off moving it to "A" or "B"?
3. What brand/style panel?

Codewise:

1. What do I have to do to use the old panel as a splice box?
2. Which article allows me to splice the feeder to extend it to a new location?
3. Would I need to add any circuits?

71/2' ceilings
Wood construction with 2X8 Joists and strapping
Drywall
No MWBC
No main breaker in unit
No GFI's in kitchen or bathroom

Attached pic for those who can't see photobucket.

 

[Buck Parrish]

You can take the guts out of the existing panel. Then use it as a j-box, install the new panel any where you want. You may need a 4- wire feeder , because you will have to isolate the grd. Asumming there is a disco out side. You could use the metal pipe for the eg.
It might be easier to move the closet.:wink:

How ever I have done these types of service upgrade. The best way is to plan on a new service out side , too.

 

[jaylectricity]

Thanks for giving me ideas for more details. All the wiring is non-metallic. The meters and main breakers for all units are down in an electrical room on the first floor. Last time I took the cover off the panel I didn't notice if it was 4 wire.

Also, if you take the guts out of the panel do you have to bolt down the swinging door portion of the panel cover to keep the insides from being readily accessible, or do you have to get a new cover?

 

[quogueelectric]

I would just move the panel to the right just outside the closet. The drywall damage would be some yet minimal. I would probably just open the rock between the panels completely only 2ft x3 ft at the most. You will save more time opening the rock a litle bigger as its got to be patched anyway. 4 - 1" emts between and run the new feeder nm in the wall in and out of the sides.

 

[Volta]

Thanks for giving me ideas for more details. All the wiring is non-metallic. The meters and main breakers for all units are down in an electrical unit. Last time I took the cover off the panel I didn't notice if it was 4 wire.

Also, if you take the guts out of the panel do you have to bolt down the swinging door portion of the panel cover to keep the insides from being readily accessible, or do you have to get a new cover?

I bolt them shut, and if was a service, I use the (bonded to enclosure) neutral bar as the new EGC bar. If it was a sub, you could still use the bar but would have to bond it yourself.

 

[wbalsam1]

I would be tempted to apply for a variance asking that I be allowed to replace the panelboards with similar ones (new) having a main breaker built in. Maybe even provide a single station smoke alarm with battery-backup in or adjacent to the closet. As a proposed condition, I would offer to reconstruct the closet in a manner that would physically prohibit clothing from being too near the new panelboard.
I would bring proof of how much it would cost to comply rigorously with the code and make the point that it was an economic hardship and that in light of your proposed alternative (taking into consideration the many years these panels have been here without incident) of providing additional construction to minimize the dangers, that you be permitted a variance from the code.

 

[MF Dagger]

Can you just flip the panel location right around into the hallway?

 

[yankj]

FYI -- Cutler-Hammer makes a retrofit to replace guts in old panels.

 

[Kdog76]

Can you just flip the panel location right around into the hallway?

I have been looking at a similar job - and that was my first thought, putting the panel in the hallway. Feeders won't be long enough - so I figured either swapping existing panels out & leave them be (not my first choice due to working space) or leave them as a J-box & use NM-B over to the breaker panel for the feeder & branch circuits.

 

[jaylectricity]

Can you just flip the panel location right around into the hallway?

Wouldn't that lend itself to tampering?

 

[480sparky]

Wouldn't that lend itself to tampering?

Padlock it.

 

[mgmelec]

check with ahj, in nj the rehab codes allow you to replace panel in closets.

 

[Power Tech]

You can put a J-box larger than the panel with the back cut out and bolt it onto the edge of the old flange. throw the panel cover away. Run 2 emt conduits, 1 for power and 1 for branch. Since it is in the closet they should not have a problem with the exposed conduit to location B.

 

[ohm]

check with ahj, in nj the rehab codes allow you to replace panel in closets.

Bingo......!

 

[stickboy1375]

Change the clothes closet to an electrical closet.

 

[infinity]

check with ahj, in NJ the rehab codes allow you to replace panel in closets.

Did one of them not too long ago in a walk in clothes closet. Inspector said according to the rehab code he had to allow it. Lower cost was a big score for the HO.