I installed GFI's in the kitchens of an apartment complex built in the early 80's the inspector found that in some apartments one of the kitchen circuits was fed off of the bath room receptacle and some the bath room was fed from the kitchen. Am I required to rewire these circuits to meet today's code? I was not there at the time of inspection and have not been able to talk to the inspector all I know it was red tagged for this reason.
replacing receptacles
- Thread starter kallen61
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jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: replacing receptacles
First welcome to the forum
As to your question.That setup was not legal for when it was wired and probably never was,so we can't grandfather it in.I would have them look up when it was built and who passed it.It should have never passed but now that it is uncovered he could demand it to be repaired.As to who foots the bill that has nothing to do with nec.So exactly who hired you and to do what ?
First welcome to the forum
As to your question.That setup was not legal for when it was wired and probably never was,so we can't grandfather it in.I would have them look up when it was built and who passed it.It should have never passed but now that it is uncovered he could demand it to be repaired.As to who foots the bill that has nothing to do with nec.So exactly who hired you and to do what ?
Re: replacing receptacles
I was hired by the general contractor to replace all the light fixtures as part of a rehab.These are government subsidized apartments that were in poor shape.I noticed there were no GFI's installed in the kitchens but they were in the bath rooms I suggested installing GFI's in the kitchens to bring it up to code.There were two circuits marked kitchen in the panels so I had no idea about the screwed up wiring.They also had me add smoke detectors in the bed rooms.
I was hired by the general contractor to replace all the light fixtures as part of a rehab.These are government subsidized apartments that were in poor shape.I noticed there were no GFI's installed in the kitchens but they were in the bath rooms I suggested installing GFI's in the kitchens to bring it up to code.There were two circuits marked kitchen in the panels so I had no idea about the screwed up wiring.They also had me add smoke detectors in the bed rooms.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: replacing receptacles
Well then i see it as the owners problem.You did your job.Sounds like the original inspector did not do his job.As far as i know it was never legal to put a bathroom receptacle on a SA circuit.I might be wrong on this so wait for others to reply.Important issue is what year code was inforced at time of building.From there look up the code for that year.
Well then i see it as the owners problem.You did your job.Sounds like the original inspector did not do his job.As far as i know it was never legal to put a bathroom receptacle on a SA circuit.I might be wrong on this so wait for others to reply.Important issue is what year code was inforced at time of building.From there look up the code for that year.
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
Re: replacing receptacles
In the early 80's pulled a seperate circuit for the bathroom and outside rec. We just put the GFI on a 15 amp circuit. They didn't have the turbo hair driers they do today. I would have to say that the contractor put the bath outlets on the SA circuit so they would be on a 20a. Possibly 20 years ago the contractor and inspector thought it was a good idea.
In the early 80's pulled a seperate circuit for the bathroom and outside rec. We just put the GFI on a 15 amp circuit. They didn't have the turbo hair driers they do today. I would have to say that the contractor put the bath outlets on the SA circuit so they would be on a 20a. Possibly 20 years ago the contractor and inspector thought it was a good idea.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: replacing receptacles
Not opening the walls is not the issue.If an inspector catches a violation then he must see it corrected.Only exception here is if it was legal at time the place was wired ,then we grandfather it.
Not opening the walls is not the issue.If an inspector catches a violation then he must see it corrected.Only exception here is if it was legal at time the place was wired ,then we grandfather it.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: replacing receptacles
Several years ago New Jersey passed a Rehab-Code which dealt with situations like this. It is less stringent than the NEC but provides some common sense in dealing with situations like the one you've outlined. Installing GFCI's in the kitchen as you've mentioned would be one of those situations. This would remove the burden of rewiring the apartment while providing some added protection that did not exist previously. It was found that since landlords were forced to incure the costs of bringing an entire building up to code when they made improvements they would cite "grand fathering" and simply would do nothing, hence the Rehab-Code. It isn't perfect but it can provide added protection in situations exactly like the one you mentioned.
Several years ago New Jersey passed a Rehab-Code which dealt with situations like this. It is less stringent than the NEC but provides some common sense in dealing with situations like the one you've outlined. Installing GFCI's in the kitchen as you've mentioned would be one of those situations. This would remove the burden of rewiring the apartment while providing some added protection that did not exist previously. It was found that since landlords were forced to incure the costs of bringing an entire building up to code when they made improvements they would cite "grand fathering" and simply would do nothing, hence the Rehab-Code. It isn't perfect but it can provide added protection in situations exactly like the one you mentioned.
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