Req. for bonding Gas pipe

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Jesse7623

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eastern Mass
What is the requirement for bonding A gas piping system?I thought that according to NEC 250.104,3(b) the grounding conductor serving the appliance shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means... but I have an architect telling me to run a 1/0 copper wire to the gas pipe.is this not above and beyond the requirement of the code?
thanks guys,
Jesse:confused:
 
This is covered by 250.104(B).
As you mention., the equipment grounding conductor often meets the requirement.

CSST gas piping often calls for more stringent bonding, but this is not an NEC issue.
 
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so what you are saying is that all though it is above the req. of the NEC it may still be requiered by the local AHJ because of certain local gas codes???
 
local codes may require anything :D
many jurisdictions are prohibited from adopting rules less stringent than the State, but they may adopt more stringent.
 
I'm having the same problem here with machanical inspectors. The only time that I know you have to bond to gas piping systems is 250.104 B. They want us to bond gas pipes with a 6 AWG to our panels even if the gas pipe is not likely to become energized. IMO if the gas pipe is in direct connection to earth it would violate 250.52 B, and could be very dangerous if POCO lost a neutral.
 
The Iceman said:
I'm having the same problem here with machanical inspectors. The only time that I know you have to bond to gas piping systems is 250.104 B. They want us to bond gas pipes with a 6 AWG to our panels even if the gas pipe is not likely to become energized. IMO if the gas pipe is in direct connection to earth it would violate 250.52 B, and could be very dangerous if POCO lost a neutral.
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you are probably aware, but other readers may not be, but gas piping often has a dielectric coupling to isolate the "buried" pipe from interior piping. 250.104 addresses piping that is "attached to or installed within"
This dielectric fitting is most often at the gas meter (when there is a meter).
 
in my opinion, I think it all depends on your personal judgement, You might only have a 20 amp circuit feeding any gas appliance but if u have a large gas line entering the building i think the wire should be increased. in a home where u might only have a 1" gas line coming in i thing the #12 will be fine but if you have a 6" gas line it wouldnt be a bad idea to increase your bondng conductor
 
nunu161 said:
in my opinion, I think it all depends on your personal judgement, You might only have a 20 amp circuit feeding any gas appliance but if u have a large gas line entering the building i think the wire should be increased. in a home where u might only have a 1" gas line coming in i thing the #12 will be fine but if you have a 6" gas line it wouldnt be a bad idea to increase your bondng conductor
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That makes no sense whatsoever.
 
Jesse7623 said:
What is the requirement for bonding A gas piping system?I thought that according to NEC 250.104,3(b) the grounding conductor serving the appliance shall be permitted to serve as the bonding means... but I have an architect telling me to run a 1/0 copper wire to the gas pipe.is this not above and beyond the requirement of the code?
thanks guys,
Jesse:confused:
Click to expand...

Was the 1/0 on the print?

Is that what was bid on?

Then it is required regardless of the NEC.
 
I agree with Bob but I would like to know if the engineer is talking about CSST piping or hard gas pipe (black iron). The reason could be that some CSST piping use to require bonding based on 250.66. I know that omegaflex has since stopped making the CSST piping that requires additional bonding and is making "counterstrike" piping that does not require any addition grounding- the EGC will do.
 
iwire said:
That makes no sense whatsoever.
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for example the job im on as a 4 inch gas main feeding about 20 radiant tube heaters, 4 water heaters, and 4 furnaces. i just dont think a #12 would be suitable, so i put in a #4. I'm not saying it was a code im just saying i.m.o
 
augie47 said:
you are probably aware, but other readers may not be, but gas piping often has a dielectric coupling to isolate the "buried" pipe from interior piping. 250.104 addresses piping that is "attached to or installed within"
This dielectric fitting is most often at the gas meter (when there is a meter).
Click to expand...

That might be true. My concern with bonding to a gas pipe that is not likely to become energized, like the mechanical inspectors are requiring us to do, is that if POCO loses the neutral to the building then the gas pipe could become energized.
 
nunu161 said:
for example the job im on as a 4 inch gas main feeding about 20 radiant tube heaters, 4 water heaters, and 4 furnaces. i just dont think a #12 would be suitable, so i put in a #4. I'm not saying it was a code im just saying i.m.o
Click to expand...

In my opinion all that accomplished was a waste of material with no gain at all in safety.

Whatever size EGC is serving the largest of those circuits is more then adequate to bond the gas line. The actual size of the gas main has no bearing at all on the bonding requirements.

But that said, it is not my money so if it makes you feel better then so be it. :smile:
 
The Iceman said:
That might be true. My concern with bonding to a gas pipe that is not likely to become energized, like the mechanical inspectors are requiring us to do, is that if POCO loses the neutral to the building then the gas pipe could become energized.
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I don't understand your statement.

Gas piping is bonded throughout the country thru the EGC and I have not heard of any problems with that. If the pipe accidentally gets energized then the egc should do its job and trip the breaker
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't understand your statement.

Gas piping is bonded throughout the country thru the EGC and I have not heard of any problems with that. If the pipe accidentally gets energized then the egc should do its job and trip the breaker
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the inspectors here making us bond to gas pipes that are not likely to become energized, with a #6 AWG, to were all your GEC terminate. If the POCO loses the neutral to the building you will energize the gas pipe. This is the same problem plumbers have with us using the water pipe as a grounding electrode.
 
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