Request For Hacks

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jeff43222

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Location
Minneapolis, Minnesota
This ad was just posted on the local craigslist.org site:

"We will be acting as our own GC in this project. We have a drawing to scale of what the project will be and the area to be finished is 1200sq ft. We need to add a family room, bedroom, office, full bathroom, utility room. This project will need to begin with a plumber who can elevate the boiler pipes to make room for ceiling, install bath where existing stack. We will also need someone who can get do electrical, drywall, framing, floors, egress, trims, etc. Handyman please don't hesitate - this is an informal project and will not be pulling permits. Looking for the best price from a reputable contractor, willing to pay cash for a good quote."

So they want a reputable contractor who:
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Works cheap</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Accepts cash</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Doesn't have to be licensed, bonded, insured</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Doesn't bother with permits/inspections</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't know of any reputable contractors who would qualify under these criteria.

It might be fun to go bid on the electrical, just to find out where the job is so I can let the AHJ know what's going on. :D
 
Re: Request For Hacks

Jeff, are you sure this is not an IRS sting operation. Why not call them up and pretend to be a handyman, tell them you are not licensed or insured but your parole officer will give you a good reference. See what they say & post it.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

craigslist is full of hacks...
I saw this one ad(in NJ) offering Available Electrician/Car Electronic Installer/Plumber
I did a reverse look-up on the number and got the individual's full name. I then searched the NJ BoEoEC site and found said individual's name NOT on the EC list...a week later I saw the individual's name in print again ~ in the police blotter! LMAO

...and another hack: Electrician for hire or?

and another:
Handyman Electrician available for work in Middlesex county

I am seriously considering calling the Board on the bozos. I spent a great deal of time, money and effort to get my EC Lic. (ok, not that much time, passed first shot)...and even more to maintain it for the 10+ years.

I do admire this one guy:
ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR AVAILABLE FOR NEW WORK IN YOUR AREA. ...he has a ton of ads there...all done properly - his license no. is posted.
I wouldn't advertise this way, but looking at his lic. no., I can tell he's a newb and just breaking into the game by all available means. Good for him!
I have NO plans of driving all over the state chasing dead presidents, though. If I got even 1/2 the jobs I estimated I wouldn't have any time to "play" here :D or with my kids out back.


eBay also has an EC offering services:
Journeyman Electrician 8 Hours of Electrical Service
This cheapens the trade...IMHO.

[ July 22, 2005, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: celtic ]
 
Re: Request For Hacks

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So they want a reputable contractor who:

Works cheap
Accepts cash
Doesn't have to be licensed, bonded, insured
Doesn't bother with permits/inspections
-------------------------------------------------
This reminds me of a Journeyman I used to work with some years back. He had business cards for side jobs that he did in Detroit, MI. They said "No permit, No problem." If I can find his number I will refer him to this job ad, maybe he will fly out there and hook these people up.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

What amazes me is these people openly advertise and nobody does anything about it. We have the same problem here. There is a handyman company that actually has "We will do electrical work,plumbing, ect." on the side of their van. I'm sure they have no license in any trade and I see them in the cities in our county all the time. I called the AHJ and he saids the problem is they have to catch them in the act. I told him they need to call them explain the penalities if caught and warn them to stay out of their area. What a joke. But I also blame the fools that hire these clowns. If there wasn't a market for these guys they wouldn't be here.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

I have seen the same in my area " handyman will do landscaping,plumbing,electrical,baby sit you cat ect". But IMHO we let these people take the work from us. Turning these hacks in to the AHJ some times works and some times it doesn't one of the best solutions I have heard of was what the state of South Carolina did ( this was told to me cannot prove it true) If john q homeowner hires someone to do work in a trade that requires licensing,elect.,plumbing,hvac.... and the home owner finds out the person is not licensed the home owner has no obligation to pay for the service and the hack has no legal recourse for collecting his money. The laws need to be changed to our favor. And yes I know the hacks will find ways around this but it will make them think can I get by with this one or am I working for free
 
Re: Request For Hacks

Untill ahj really get tough there will be unlicensed work.Often fellow electricians (some only helpers )tell me about how they made $100 or $200 last night after work doing whatever.Word travels and they get more side jobs.I warn them about the dangers but they don't care.As to getting paid,the homeowner just broke the law too.So if they don't pay they can end up in court and a judge might very well order them to pay .The electrician could back fire things on them too.He could call the ahj and tell them about Mr xxxx at 654 3rd st having had electrical work done unpermitted.Now they have a problem with work that might not meet code and will have to hire an EC to fix it.After the fact permits cost 4 times here.
Turn them in is all you can do.But very few get caught or turned in.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

I think that licensed EC's should be a lot more aggressive in turning in unlicensed hack work. If you don't you are cutting your own throat and doing a disservice to our industry.

For some reason, many EC's seem to have an aversion to turning someone in. I don't really understand why. :confused:

If a lot more EC's made a lot more noise, then there wouldn't be as much a problem with hack work.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Probably something about throwing stones from a glass house, would be my guess. :(
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Meaning they are doing things themselves that they don't think will stand up to scrutiny? Maybe they should clean up their act, too?

I think that someone who blatantly does work without being licensed, when licensing is required by law, should be reported.

I also think that licensed EC's that do work that doesn't comply with code should have to correct their work.

I'd just like for there to be a level playing field and for everyone to have to comply with the same code standards and laws.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

Not everyone has an aversion to turning in hacks. The receptionists at the state board know me on sight and who I'm there to speak with. It's a little inconvenient when I happen to be there for other business. :D

I didn't go through all the hassle of studying for the exam (twice), paying all the fees, getting insurance, and getting bonded just to have bragging rights. I agree with tx2step: There should be a level playing field.

Unfortunately, the state authorities have limited resources, and going after hacks is not terribly high on their priority list.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

Originally posted by jeff43222:
I didn't go through all the hassle of studying for the exam (twice), paying all the fees, getting insurance, and getting bonded just to have bragging rights.
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I totally agree!!!

Originally posted by jeff43222:
Unfortunately, the state authorities have limited resources, and going after hacks is not terribly high on their priority list.
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Left up to them, they aren't very motivated to go out looking for these guys -- they usually have enough to do already. That's why I think it is in our best interests to "help them out" in this particular endeavor. And if they don't seem very interested in enforcement, then I'm not beyond upping the political ante as needed to move it up their priority list. :D


On the other hand, I might eventually change my mind about this licensing thing. I've been thinking about going into brain surgery, and if I decide to do that I'll be against having to be licensed. The idea of having to go to medical school seems so unnecessary, now that I think about it. What's to know? And it's not as though it might possibly entail the public's safety, you know? Where's the risk? :roll:

[ July 24, 2005, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]
 
Re: Request For Hacks

Hey, I've been giving this brain surgery thing more thought, and I'm kind of liking the idea.

Do any of you guys have any suggestions on how I should go about it? Which part of the brain is the best place to start? I better start making notes, I might not remember all of the technical to-do mumbo-jumbo.

Anyway, I'll offer a 25% discount to my first 10 brain surgery patients, and --- best of all --- no permits!!! Payment only in cash, though.

I'll be doing them in my garage in an old barber chair. I'll probably start with a 4" hole saw, so I have plenty of room to work.

And if you need that paddle thing done to your chest, I'm your man! I'm a licensed electrician! What voltage would you like for me to use? I might even throw in a couple of good jolts for free, since it will be so easy for me to do.

Hey, this is sounding better all the time! :)

One stipulation -- any survivors must agree to give me glowing references. :D In fact, you better give me that glowing written reference before we get started, just in case you have problems signing your name later.

And just one other small piece of information. Recovery is 99% of the process, and you're responsible for that, since you'll be doing that at home. Surgery will only take me an hour at most, but I'm pretty sure it will take you at least 99 hours to recover... so that makes it 99% of the process, right? (I just love this new math -- it fits in with the new logic that I see so often) If you screw up recovery, it's your fault and it's on your head (oops, that didn't sound good, did it?)

I warrant my surgery for 30 days. If you aren't completely satisfied with the results, I'll do it over for free!!! (plus a small shipping and handling fee, of course) What more could you ask?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I'm now completely against licensing! Licenses are just a legal hindrance enacted by a bunch of elitists to try to limit my ability to make a good living out of bilking the public. Oops, I meant to say "out of performing a public service for a cost far below that of those elitist licensed MDs."

I'll be the poor man's surgeon!

DOWN WITH LICENSES!!!

[ July 24, 2005, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: tx2step ]
 
Re: Request For Hacks

I am licensed as a PE in five states, and have let several other state licenses lapse. I still get newsletters from several of the state licensing departments. The news always includes a set of short paragraphs describing disciplinary actions. These sometimes go on for pages and pages. Some of the actions are taken against licensed PEs who violated the rules (such as working outside their areas of expertise, as an electrical PE doing civil engineering designs). Other times it is for gross incompetence (such as issuing a design that has serious code violations that could lead to someone getting seriously hurt). More often, however, the disciplinary action is against a non-licensed person who had advertised for, or actually performed, engineering work. There is usually a fine imposed and a restriction placed on their future employment as an engineer in that state.

My point for bringing this up is that state PE licensing boards are very open to receiving complaints against non-licensed persons doing work that should require a license. The "Code of Ethics" for Professional Engineers give us the duty to report such persons to the board. It is not so much that work done by non-licensed persons threatens the livelihoods of licensed persons, though that is certainly true. More important is that work done by non-licensed persons threatens the health and safety of the public. I am sure that this is also true in the electrical trade.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

I have heard of was what the state of South Carolina did ( this was told to me cannot prove it true) If john q homeowner hires someone to do work in a trade that requires licensing,elect.,plumbing,hvac.... and the home owner finds out the person is not licensed the home owner has no obligation to pay for the service and the hack has no legal recourse for collecting his money.

I believe that is true in every state. If a person requires a license and he performs the work without one he has no legel recourse to collect his money should the customer decide not to pay.

On top of that there are customers out there who are well aware of this and will simply say to an unlicensed contractor at the completion of the job that they won't pay and "you can't do anything about it".

Had this happen to me a couple of years ago. Was called to install a fan/light and a dedicated receptacle in a small bath. There was severe water damage to the plaster ceiling and one wall from a leaking pipe.

I was slow at the time and "volunteered" to rock over the ceiling and wall as part of the job as well as tape and finish.

We agreed on a price but when I finished the customer denied any agreement and refused to pay the "agreed" amount. Long story short this guy was (at the time) a friend so I didn't do a contract or get money up front.

We settled for an an amount $700 less because I knew full well I needed a home improvement license to do that kind of work and I don't have one. Normally I would have in an instant put a lein on the house and taken him to small claims.

Now I understand that this guy wants to finish his second floor attic and doesn't want to get the required permits and inspections because his taxes will go up.

You know I'll be watching- payback time! :)

-Hal
 
Re: Request For Hacks

Originally posted by charlie b:
My point for bringing this up is that state PE licensing boards are very open to receiving complaints against non-licensed persons doing work that should require a license.

I once called the state licensing board here when I came across a company that advertised engineering work, yet no one in the company seemed to have a PE license (although a few of the bosses claimed EIT credentials). The board told me they wouldn't move an inch unless I mailed in a signed complaint. I didn't have any real evidence; I just thought it was something the board would want to look into.

More important is that work done by non-licensed persons threatens the health and safety of the public. I am sure that this is also true in the electrical trade.

Very true. The state authorities who handle hacks doing electrical work are more responsive to anonymous complaints. Then again, I've turned in enough hacks advertising electrical work that the people at the state board know me by now. :D
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Re: Request For Hacks

Originally posted by hbiss:
I have heard of was what the state of South Carolina did ( this was told to me cannot prove it true) If john q homeowner hires someone to do work in a trade that requires licensing,elect.,plumbing,hvac.... and the home owner finds out the person is not licensed the home owner has no obligation to pay for the service and the hack has no legal recourse for collecting his money.

I believe that is true in every state. If a person requires a license and he performs the work without one he has no legel recourse to collect his money should the customer decide not to pay.
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That's how the lien laws work here. You can't put a lien on property for unpaid work if the work requires a license and you don't have one.

The unlicensed guy may not have legal recourse to get his money, but if a homeowner plays this game, he shouldn't be surprised if the unlicensed guy gets upset and resorts to "other" means to get satisfaction. A few strategic uses of a hammer or a Sawzall can erase many hours of meticulous drywall work.

This is one of the many reasons I stick to electrical work. If I bust up a wall or ceiling, I have a few good drywall guys (licensed) in my Rolodex I swing the work to. They, in turn, swing electrical work to me when it comes up. Sure beats paying to advertise. :D

[ July 25, 2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: jeff43222 ]
 
Re: Request For Hacks

Originally posted by celtic:
craigslist is full of hacks...


eBay also has an EC offering services:
Journeyman Electrician 8 Hours of Electrical Service
This cheapens the trade...IMHO.
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Yikes... that last one is T&C electric. It's sad to see fly by nighters cutting down our trade, but to see one of the largest EC's in the country (look up Faith Technologies on the EC&M or ENR rankings lists) doing it is really depressing.
 
Re: Request For Hacks

I always drop a dime on these hacks, but unfortunately, the Electrical Licensing Board only has authority over Licensed Electricians.

Most Building depts in the County are either Corrupt, or simply don't have the resources to go out and check out complaints.

The rules have been slowly changining in our favor, at least in every town in the county you are supposedto have a license to perform electrical work, previous there were a few towns with no license requirement.

Now most of the inspectors will not even talk to homeowners, never mind go inspect their work, so things are starting to come around, albeit slowly.
 
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