Residential Backup Generator Advice

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curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I’m looking for advice regarding a proposed residential backup generator installation.

Years ago we installed quite a few generators for a GC that did work in the hills where storms would kill power for extended periods.

We would occasionally install generators in the flat lands but once you tell most homeowners that its not just buying/installing the generator, maintenance is also required like a car they decide its not worth it.

In recent year most choose to go with PV and battery backup.

Anyway………
Another GC we used to do a lot of work for but retired about 10 years ago is asking for a backup generator for his own home in the hills. The basic installation sounds relatively easy. He has a detached building that has a meter-main then an underground feeder to the main house. He wants the generator located at the detached building so we can just interrupt the feeder with the automatic transfer switch.

He wants the generator to start automatically but wants the ability to turn the generator off and back on from the main house. His thought is he doesn’t need power the entire time the grid is down. He only wants to occasionally run the generator to keep refrigerator/freezer cold and heat the house during cold days.

Back when we did more residential generators it was mostly Generac. We never installed any remote controls and I don’t remember that being an option.

For those here that do install generators is the manual control request reasonable/doable? If so any suggestion of manufactures and models of equipment I should be looking at?
 
You may be able to break the start circuit thru a dpdt switch.
But you would have to get them in the house. .
 
qcroanoke said:
You may be able to break the start circuit thru a dpdt switch.
But you would have to get them in the house. .
Click to expand...
On my Kohler generator, there is a single circuit that the ATS closes to call for the generator. I put a SPST switch in that circuit, so the ATS doesn't call for the generator.

However, when the power goes down and the switch is off, you sometimes have to go out to the generator and "reset" it (Turn it to on, then back to auto) because the ATS has faulted. There may well be a better way to do it. Can't do it w/ our smart phone, because we have no cell service (back in the woods).
 
What about something like this? The only down fall is you would have the gen running at all times without a batterybank/inverter setup.
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This is a very interesting question and had to think about the easiest way to do what the OP asked. With most gensets designed to work with an ATS, the intelligence (logic) to determine whether the utility power is outside of the voltage/ frequency parameters is built into the ATS. Once this condition is determined then as Barbqranch
 
Thanks for the replies so far.
I don't need to do any load shedding. The house loads are minimal and the generator will be sized to handle all loads that will be transferred.

The owners are used to dealing with extended power outages. They have used a portable generator in the past. They are getting older and don't want to deal with a portable generator but don't want a backup generator possible running 24/7 for days. They want a hybrid automatic/manual system which is something I have never dealt with. Its usually one or the other.
 
Sorry I waited too long.

This is a very interesting question and I had to think about the easiest way to do what the OP asked. With most gensets designed to work with an ATS, the intelligence (logic) to determine when an ATS will transfer to gen (utility power is outside of the voltage/ frequency parameters) is built into the ATS. Once this condition is determined then as Barbqranch mentioned , a contact in the ATS closes to send the signal for the gen to start. The gen sends power to the ATS and the ATS transfers to gen. Note: there are only 2 conditions for an ATS to transfer load to gen:
1. The ATS senses loss of utility voltage.
2. The gen sends proper voltage and frequency to the ATS.
The gen has very simple (dumb) logic: start contact closes: gen runs, start contact open: gen stops.
If the ATS is already transferred to gen and utility power returns (time delay to normal timer is still timing) then interrupting the start signal will cause the gen to shut down and, by design, the ATS will immediately transfer to normal (utility.) The reason is an ATS will not stay on a dead bus if it has a good source to transfer to.
So, based on how this logic operates, adding a remote SPST switch to interrupt the engine start signal will accomplish what the OP requires.
Side note: Usually, the only reason to "reset" the gen logic alarm (as Barbqranch mentioned) is when the Hand-Off-Auto selector switch is operated on the gen controller.
It can also be done another way involving the ATS internal logic, but that is another discussion.
 
I'm wondering if there could be an issue with starting and stopping the generator while the loads are still connected by the ATS. For example, I've read that it's not a good practice to allow generators to coast down when connected to submersible well pumps, because this could cause extra wear of the hydrodynamic bearings. I've also seen some discussions of possible damage to electronics when a generator is shut off under load, but I've always avoided this scenario and so I don't know how valid that concern might be.
A short engine warmup interval is typically provided before connecting the generator to loads, and a cool down period with loads disconnected before shutting down. How important this is may depend on the loading and other conditions.
Perhaps a contactor could be used to connect the generator output when appropriate, either through a manual switch or a timer operating in concert with a switch for controlling engine start.
 
When you say remote control are you talking about a wireless remote? If so you could use a couple Yolink devices. They operate on batteries and have a 500Ft range. You would just be able to push the remote control at the house and energize one or more relay that would then need to be wired into the circuit to turn the generator on/off. These are very inexpensive like $100. but we use these devices daily in an industrial environment and they work fine.
You would need:
The remote (battery powered so no need for wifi or AC power). $29.59
https://shop.yosmart.com/products/yolink-remote?_pos=1&_sid=eb241c3d5&_ss=r
Smart Outdoor Relay controller ( will also work with its own batteries so external AC/DC power or wifi is not needed) (You would need 1 controller for each relay you use) $42.99 https://shop.yosmart.com/collections/featured/products/yolink-outdoor-siren
A hub to set these devices up and then can let you also control the devices with Wifi using your smart phone to control the remote if you have power. $28.00 https://shop.yosmart.com/collections/featured/products/speakerhub
Then you can just purchase 12vdc relays and connect them to the Smart outdoor Relay controllers.
 
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