Residential Electrical Service 100 AMP

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Sparky9876

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Location
Pa
I have a customer who is selling there home and they need some work done. The home inspection came back and the inspector told them that they need to update there electrical panel because the have a 100 amp SE cable feeding a 60 amp panel. The inspector says the 60 amp panel has to be updated to 100 amp. Does it say anywhere in the code that you need upgrade to that panel? I don’t see any issue with the wire being oversized.
 

Little Bill

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Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
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Semi-Retired Electrician
He may be confusing the fact that 100A is the minimum size disconnect allowed for a dwelling. But that would be for a new install. You could still have a 100A disconnect and a 60A panel, if you could find such an animal today.
Having said that, the Home Inspector should only say "to contact a qualified electrician" to check this, not note something as mandatory.
 

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
Is this a Service, so the 60A panel is the main panel? If so, is there a 60A main, or 6 breaker handles being used as the main? If 6 breaker handles, what is the calculated load? If over 60A, then the inspector may be correct. If there is a 60A main breaker somewhere, then no need to change.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
The inspector says the 60 amp panel has to be updated to 100 amp. Does it say anywhere in the code that you need upgrade to that panel? I don’t see any issue with the wire being oversized.

Did the report state it needed to be upgraded to 100 Amp because of the service conductor size?

I have had to upgrade a service size from 60 to 100 Amps and not because of a code violation but because the buyer was getting an FHA loan and they require a minimum of a 100 amp service.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Did the report state it needed to be upgraded to 100 Amp because of the service conductor size?

I have had to upgrade a service size from 60 to 100 Amps and not because of a code violation but because the buyer was getting an FHA loan and they require a minimum of a 100 amp service.

When something was code compliant at time of installation there still can be other reasons like you mentioned to need to change something match current codes or even amendments to what NEC has.

Having an FPE panel is not a code violation, yet it likely at least gets mention in a HI report that that particular panel is a subject of concern in many instances - then let whoever may be concerned about that deal with it as they see fit. Likely you have more difficulty getting insurance if you have said panel, even though there is no actual code violation. This is what HI's are for, telling buyers and sellers the condition of things so they can use that information to develop terms or conditions of a purchase agreement. If you buy a house that you can't insure you probably don't want to spend what the seller is asking for unless it is already a steal to begin with. This gives you ammunition to try to bring that price down or at least make seller fix the problem if they are going to get asking price.
 

charlie b

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Location
Lockport, IL
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Retired Electrical Engineer
Not a code issue, but a good idea anyway. Depending on the size of the home and the existing electrical loads (electric water heater, stove, air conditioning, etc.), 60 amps might not be enough. If you can get a 100 amp panel that fits into the same space as the existing 60 amp panel, it should be a relatively inexpensive task to do the replacement. You only need to reconnect the existing circuits to the new breakers. However, it comes at a risk that depends on the code cycle in effect and the existing conditions. If, for example, there is a 20 amp breaker serving kitchen countertop receptacles with #14 wire, the electrical inspector is sure to require that to be fixed. So I would not make any promises that might have to be broken once the work begins.
 

MAC702

Senior Member
Location
Clark County, NV
So what can of worms is opened by replacing the service panel? AFCIs?

As mentioned, the home inspector is beyond his authority to use the terms "need to update" and "has to be updated."

HALF of my work from home inspection reports is typing out an explanation on why the inspector is wrong on something.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
However, it comes at a risk that depends on the code cycle in effect and the existing conditions. If, for example, there is a 20 amp breaker serving kitchen countertop receptacles with #14 wire, the electrical inspector is sure to require that to be fixed. So I would not make any promises that might have to be broken once the work begins.

If you are dealing with old houses ( the type that had 60 Amp fuse panels) it's not uncommon to find #14 feeding counter top receptacles. It's not a big deal. Before doing a panel swap you just count the number of circuits leaving the panel that are wired with #14 and buy that many 15 amp breakers.

They can't write up a code violation because a 15 amp circuit feeds a counter top in a 1950s era house because it was not a code requirement to have 20 amp circuits at the time of original installation. They can write up a code violation if you try to protect #14 GA wire with a 20 amp breaker.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Not a code issue, but a good idea anyway. Depending on the size of the home and the existing electrical loads (electric water heater, stove, air conditioning, etc.), 60 amps might not be enough. If you can get a 100 amp panel that fits into the same space as the existing 60 amp panel, it should be a relatively inexpensive task to do the replacement. You only need to reconnect the existing circuits to the new breakers. However, it comes at a risk that depends on the code cycle in effect and the existing conditions. If, for example, there is a 20 amp breaker serving kitchen countertop receptacles with #14 wire, the electrical inspector is sure to require that to be fixed. So I would not make any promises that might have to be broken once the work begins.
The only thing I would add Charlie is that once you pull the permit to replace the breaker panel the EI will likely have you update grounding system. As mentioned, this is not an Code issue unless the SE cable is in dis-repair or the sheathing has been compromised.
 
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