residential estimating. per unit or sq ft

[nick h]

Hi All,

My background has pretty much been strictly commercial/industrial since i entered into the profession. I could probably count the number of houses i've wired on two hands as they were usually done for a friend or family member of myself or the company i worked for. I really have not had much interest in pursuing residential installations, however i have found myself in an area where the trade is in high demand and could be somewhat lucrative.

I have had several people come forward asking me if i had any interest in wiring new houses, but have been turning them down until my business gets off the ground, and can do the work legitimately. I am now at the point where i'm within a couple weeks of being 100% ready to roll. I have a full time 40+ hour a week job working 4 on 3 off and am going to be starting off as a one man band with low overhead to "Dip my toes in the water".

A large majority of the work i did when working for electrical contractors was on a time and material bases as we did lots of on call troubleshooting, as well as custom work and the "while your here" jobs. I did not have a lot of experience in bidding the large new construction projects i was involved with, but understand that it was broken up into packages for lighting, gear, and then takeoffs for all the different devices, and assemblies that were on the prints.

Moving into the residential scope i figured working off of a similar "take off" perspective and making up line item pricing for each different device to be installed including all the material and labor in that price. Im just shooting from the hip here but say something like 120 per homerun, 100 per receptacle, 130 per can fixture, etc... again i havnt actually worked those numbers out so those are fictional. That was my original thought on bidding.

However, after talking to several people it sounds like alot of contractors are bidding per sq. ft.. and after doing some searching on the web it looks like that is actually pretty common. It just seems like it would be difficult to say for sure that you would be covering yourself on material and labor with a hard number per sq ft. Any thoughts on this? also could anyone give me a general idea of what a typical 1500 sq ft house is going for?

I know i just said it would be hard to give a price off of square footage alone, im just looking for some kind of ballpark number so i know im not way off in left field with my "takeoff" approach as i get ready to start bidding some work. Also would that number be including the service or would that be a separate charge all on its own? Any comments and or criticism is appreciated! thanks!
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[jeff48356]

I base my bids off the square footage. In this case, 1500 sq. ft. * 3.20/sf = $4800. Add $1000 for the service, and you have a base price of $5,800. This includes permit and all basic materials, other than fixtures or ceiling fans. Extras are added from that point. Price, however, does include up to 30 cans in the house, along with the LED trims (6" only). 4" ones are $20 extra per can due to price of materials.

Price does NOT include any charges imposed by the POCO. Those are extra, and to be added to the bid if applicable. Here in SE Michigan, DTE does not charge for this, so there's nothing to include on the bill.

 

[growler]

could anyone give me a general idea of what a typical 1500 sq ft house is going for?

The square ft thing has been beat to death. Sure some folks do it but they come up with numbers from past data.

1500 sq ft is 1500 sq ft of living space. Is this thing built on a slab or does it have a full basement and two car garage. Is there gas or is it totally electric ( with heat pumps it is possible ).

When you get to the service is it overhead or underground? If it's underground then who does the trenching, you or POCO?

Are all these houses you plan to wire the same or are they custom?

If you give a price and they drop dead and need to be buried you may be a little high but if they just faint and can be revived then you are pretty close.

 

[Gary11734]

You know if the general is getting three bids, he will end up taking the square foot of the house and dividing by each. Then, he will beat you down 30% from the lowest bid!

After that, he now has a square foot price for the next house to beat you up by! Of course, whatever you were beat up to, it becomes the "Right price".

I love contracting....

 

[nick h]

I base my bids off the square footage. In this case, 1500 sq. ft. * 3.20/sf = $4800. Add $1000 for the service, and you have a base price of $5,800. This includes permit and all basic materials, other than fixtures or ceiling fans. Extras are added from that point. Price, however, does include up to 30 cans in the house, along with the LED trims (6" only). 4" ones are $20 extra per can due to price of materials.

Price does NOT include any charges imposed by the POCO. Those are extra, and to be added to the bid if applicable. Here in SE Michigan, DTE does not charge for this, so there's nothing to include on the bill.

Thank you for your input.

I assume this base price includes everything required such as small appliance circuits, laundry circuit, bathroom, switches, general receps, lights and receps for equipment, enough circuits to handle general lighting and receptacle load, and so on. Do you consider all 240V appliances like heat, water heater, ac, range, dryer etc. to be an extra? If so do you have some kind of line item bid sheet made up that you pull from from for these items as well as extra receptacles, dedicated circuits, or whatever it is the homeowner wants more of?

I know there are many different circumstances and no two are the same i'm just trying to make sure i'm not giving things away that the next guy down the road is charging extra for, but also don't want anyone to feel like their getting ripped off. Once i get a few under my belt i should have a much better idea if i'm making money. thanks again!

 

[nick h]

The square ft thing has been beat to death. Sure some folks do it but they come up with numbers from past data.

1500 sq ft is 1500 sq ft of living space. Is this thing built on a slab or does it have a full basement and two car garage. Is there gas or is it totally electric ( with heat pumps it is possible ).

When you get to the service is it overhead or underground? If it's underground then who does the trenching, you or POCO?

Are all these houses you plan to wire the same or are they custom?

If you give a price and they drop dead and need to be buried you may be a little high but if they just faint and can be revived then you are pretty close.

I know, i hate asking general questions like that....to many variables. Just want to get an idea if i'm in the right area code on my numbers. That's a good way to look at it though. If they don't complain at all i probably didn't charge enough!

 

[jeff48356]

Thank you for your input.

I assume this base price includes everything required such as small appliance circuits, laundry circuit, bathroom, switches, general receps, lights and receps for equipment, enough circuits to handle general lighting and receptacle load, and so on. Do you consider all 240V appliances like heat, water heater, ac, range, dryer etc. to be an extra? If so do you have some kind of line item bid sheet made up that you pull from from for these items as well as extra receptacles, dedicated circuits, or whatever it is the homeowner wants more of?

I know there are many different circumstances and no two are the same i'm just trying to make sure i'm not giving things away that the next guy down the road is charging extra for, but also don't want anyone to feel like their getting ripped off. Once i get a few under my belt i should have a much better idea if i'm making money. thanks again!

Yes, exactly! The base price includes all minimum-Code items. All 240V appliances are extra (ranges, dryers, car chargers, etc). My base price is assuming all appliances are gas-fired (furnace, water heater, dryer, range). But I do include central air (30A) in the base price. Everything else does have a line item as an extra, along with the price. Even low-voltage (cable, internet) jacks are extra.

 

[nick h]

Yes, exactly! The base price includes all minimum-Code items. All 240V appliances are extra (ranges, dryers, car chargers, etc). My base price is assuming all appliances are gas-fired (furnace, water heater, dryer, range). But I do include central air (30A) in the base price. Everything else does have a line item as an extra, along with the price. Even low-voltage (cable, internet) jacks are extra.

Thanks alot jeff that helps clear up the sq ft approach for me. it seemed impossible to supply all of those different things, and make any money charging between 3.50 and 4.00 a sq ft. i think i may take your approach and see how it works out.

 

[infinity]

I base my bids off the square footage. In this case, 1500 sq. ft. * 3.20/sf = $4800. Add $1000 for the service, and you have a base price of $5,800. This includes permit and all basic materials, other than fixtures or ceiling fans. Extras are added from that point. Price, however, does include up to 30 cans in the house, along with the LED trims (6" only). 4" ones are $20 extra per can due to price of materials.

Price does NOT include any charges imposed by the POCO. Those are extra, and to be added to the bid if applicable. Here in SE Michigan, DTE does not charge for this, so there's nothing to include on the bill.

Wow, can I hire you? Around here the $5800 would barely cover the 30 down lights and the permit cost.

 

[Little Bill]

I base my bids off the square footage. In this case, 1500 sq. ft. * 3.20/sf = $4800. Add $1000 for the service, and you have a base price of $5,800. This includes permit and all basic materials, other than fixtures or ceiling fans. Extras are added from that point. Price, however, does include up to 30 cans in the house, along with the LED trims (6" only). 4" ones are $20 extra per can due to price of materials.

Price does NOT include any charges imposed by the POCO. Those are extra, and to be added to the bid if applicable. Here in SE Michigan, DTE does not charge for this, so there's nothing to include on the bill.

Wow, can I hire you? Around here the $5800 would barely cover the 30 down lights and the permit cost.

Exactly!
Even the lowest price guys around me that do sq ft pricing charge extra for can lights. They may provide up to 5 or 6, but not 30. I would be leaving around 2K on the table if I included that many cans.
I still don't see how anyone can do sq ft pricing unless they have done more than one of the same house.