residential kitchen circuits.

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stew

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I need to pick the brains of some of you folks to see how you design and install kithchen circuits. It would seem that the 2 20 amp small applaiance required cicuits arent reallt enough to do all the jobs in the kitchen. If you home run to the reefer then it also must be gfi prtected I believe . That then would seem to me to require as single 15 amp circuit dedicated to the reefer soand locate d behind to eleiminate the possibilty of gfitripping and bringing the reefer down. Does running 2 20 amp small appliance circuits ,one 15 amp reefer circuit and one additional circuit of 15 or 20 to the diswasher/disposal/evrhot(maybe) make sense or am I overkilling this. Havent had a ton of resi setup experience so need your expert advise. Thanks
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

Originally posted by stew:
If you home run to the reefer then it also must be gfi prtected I believe .
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No, if you home run to the fridge, and then proceed to hit counter outlets, the receptacles installed to serve the countertops are required to be GFI protected, per 210.8.

The fridge does not need or benefit from GFI protection. In fact, you'd start spoiling food when it inevitably trips. :)

Does running 2 20 amp small appliance circuits ,one 15 amp reefer circuit and one additional circuit of 15 or 20 to the diswasher/disposal/evrhot(maybe) make sense or am I overkilling this. Havent had a ton of resi setup experience so need your expert advise. Thanks
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Sounds close. I am right in the middle of the road, I think. I run it thusly:
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">12-2 fridge / dining room / nook receptacles</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">12-2 "Range"-side GFI</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">12-2 "Sink"-side GFI</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">14-3 Dishwasher / Disposal. Later, the disposal side can also power a small insta-hot if desired.</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">12-2 Hood / Micro (and gas igniter if applicable)</font>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
A little overkill can't hurt, regardless of how small the house is, IMO. :)
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

Originally posted by georgestolz:
The fridge does not need or benefit from GFI protection. In fact, you'd start spoiling food when it inevitably trips. :)
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I would be careful with that statement. :D

In a commercial kitchen the refrigerators are required to be GFCI protected if fed from 15 or 20 amp 120 volt outlets.

Yes I know Stew is talking dwelling units, but IMO we have to start thinking differently about GFCIs and refrigerators. ;)
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

george ithink you misunderstood what I said. I was talking home run hot to reefer and then gfi on the first countertop and beyond with no gfi on fridge. They way I read the code this method may not be correct as on countetop circuits all must be gfi and if you use that cicuit it also must be totally gfi. It seems that if you dont want a gfi on fridge you must run a separate 15 a outlet only for the fridge behind the fridge. At leats thats what shows in the new code handbook. Thanks for your input and I agee a little overkill doesnt hurt
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

if you use that cicuit it also must be totally gfi
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Reference please ?
As I read 210-52 (B) 1 I don't see that requirement and my handbook shows the refrig.outlet on that circuit but not being GFCI
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

I think the only place that the NEC says that an entire circuit must have protection (as opposed to certain outlets needing protection) has to do with AFCI. If you have a branch circuit supplying 120 volt receptacle outlets in a dwelling unit bedroom, then that entire circuit must have AFCI protection. There is no similar rule for GFCI protection.
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

There is no requirement for an entire kitchen circuit to be gfci protected. Only receptacles serving the counter must be gfci protected. You can feed the fridge from one of the counter recetacle circuits. You can also feed it with a 15 or 20 amp dedicated circuit.
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

And to think , the code committee is thinking about making the refrig g.f.c.i. /protected :eek:
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

I think the only place that the NEC says that an entire circuit must have protection (as opposed to certain outlets needing protection) has to do with AFCI. If you have a branch circuit supplying 120 volt receptacle outlets in a dwelling unit bedroom, then that entire circuit must have AFCI protection. There is no similar rule for GFCI protection.

Just as an aside to this, Assuming you have a conduit leaving a service panel with several circuits, IF any one circuit is GFI protected at the breaker then ALL circuit conductors in the conduit must also be GFI protected. Not sure of the article # but I do believe it's in there someplace.
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

Originally posted by gudguyham:Assuming you have a conduit leaving a service panel with several circuits, IF any one circuit is GFI protected at the breaker then ALL circuit conductors in the conduit must also be GFI protected. Not sure of the article # but I do believe it's in there someplace.
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It's not. There is no such rule.
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

Don't flip out Scott, his profile says electrician, not inspector. :D
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

gudguyham was talking about any circuits that leave a service panel. Suppose I had two circuits sharing a conduit, with #1 feeding hallway lights and #2 feeding outdoor receptacles. He is saying that the fact that circuit 2 must be GFCI will also require circuit 1 to be GFCI, for no other reason than that they share a conduit. There is no such rule.
 
Re: residential kitchen circuits.

When i was doing residential kitchens a few years back, where 200 amps was still adequate for a BIG home, i installed more than 2 counter circuits (not including fixed appliances, refer, and dining) when it appeared that the home was designed to handle "kitchen events" like large family get togethers, parties, or any time it looked like the owner was serious about cooking, and where the home was designed with a large kitchen.

Given McMansions, I would assume the addition of more kitchen circuits, use it as an obvious example of higher quality construction by noting it in the bid details. I usually noted that other extras were more reasonable before the beginning of construction rather than after. This helped fatten jobs that looked to be bare bones, especially where the owners were involved in design issues with the contractor, as opposed to a spec house by a contractor. it also helped me sell idea that a few extras on spec houses, made the house seem much more custom and therefore easier to sell. this was before the real estate market exploded and buyers bought large garbage cans with driveways for top dollar.

paul
 
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