Residential Kitchen Definition

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jeff43222

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Minneapolis, Minnesota
I looked at a potential job today where the HO has built a garage with a second story that will be used as an office. The second story consists of one large room with an adjoining full bathroom. He has installed plumbing for the bathroom, and he also ran piping to the main room, with the idea that someday he might install a sink with a disposal (he wants wiring for a potential disposal installed, too).

The code doesn't seem to have a definition of a kitchen as it pertains to residential units, only one for GFCI requirements in commercial occupancies. I'm wondering: At what point does the area become a kitchen? Or is that something that the AHJ gets to decide?

The HO says that he has no plans to install any permanent cooking equipment, just a countertop microwave.
 
IMHO
The AHJ will have the last word on this. But common sense says you can put a microwave in a bedroom if you want.
DW/Disposal or permanent cooking says kitchen to me.

My Condo In Park City has a Kitchenette, Sink, small fridge and Micro but no cooking, not even a toaster oven.
 
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Jeff
Is your concern for the size of the conductor to be installed, or if you will need to provide GFCI protection.
As far as your wiring for the present, there is no kitchen. If you are worried about the future and want keep your customer safe for the future install for what you may think will occur.
 
I was just thinking ahead. Right now, everything is opened up, and he plans on rocking the entire garage, ceiling and all. The garage is where the panelboard is going to be located. Once everything is rocked, making changes for a future kitchen will be much more difficult. I was just thinking that if the area does indeed become defined as a kitchen at some point, it would be much easier to put in the appropriate wiring now than it would be once everything is rocked over.

The HO seemed happy that I discussed current and future uses during the estimate, as I was able to point out some things he hadn't considered, and he made some design changes as a result.
 
At the price of copper i would only wire it for what the print is calling it now.Perhaps as an extra you might want to run a few stubs of emt to attic for future pulls.Owner should know what he really has planned.
 
This is so simple, no range no kitchen.
It could have a disposal, dishwasher, fridg and micro wave and still be wired with a 15 amp circuit.

I think that this will be settled in the 2008 cycle.
 
Jeff, wiring for a future kitchen is not the same as having a kitchen. I'd wire to the customer's wishes and leave blank plates over boxes.
 
If this winds up being a "kitchen," then won't it need two SA circuits of its own? I'm not sure. My reading of 210.52(B)(3) tells me that you only need to have SA circuits if there are countertops in the kitchen. I suppose that once the sink and disposal are in, there must be a countertop to support them. But if it does not have at least 2 feet of counter space on the side of the sink, what happens to the rule about SA circuits?

Would it be possible to simply put in empty conduits and covered boxes, so that you won't have to remove sheetrock to do the future installation?
 
All kitchens are required to have no less than two small appliance circuits and they can supply only one kitchen. 210.11(C)(1) and 210.52(B)(3).

Why are we calling this area a kitchen?
 
Homeowner is already planning on opening up the wall in the area where the "kitchen" would be, should he decide to go that route. The garage underneath, though, is not going to be opened up, so it makes sense to run the wiring now while things are open. It would make life a whole lot easier later on. I was just thinking that if it did become a legal kitchen, it sure would be nice if required wiring was already pulled up from the panel. The HO is also thinking ahead, but he doesn't know all the requirements.
 
jwelectric said:
All kitchens are required to have no less than two small appliance circuits and they can supply only one kitchen. 210.11(C)(1) and 210.52(B)(3).

Why are we calling this area a kitchen?
Click to expand...

We aren't just yet. The HO is contemplating putting in a sink with a disposal, and that make me think "kitchen." I was just wondering at what point a room becomes a kitchen. Unlike bathrooms, the code has no definition for a residential kitchen.
 
Although the 2005 NEC does not define a residential kitchen here is a proposal for the 2008 cycle and I would think that it should be applied to a kitchen now.
_____________________________________________________________
-36 Log #356 NEC-P0 Final Action: Accept
(100. Kitchen (New) )
_____________________________________________________________
TCC Action: It was the action of the Technical Correlating Committee that this Proposal be referred to Code-Making Panel 2 for action. This action will be considered by Code-Making Panel 2 as a public comment.
Submitter: Michael J. Johnston, Plano, TX
Recommendation: Add a new definition to read as follows:
Kitchen. An area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking.
Substantiation: The word kitchen as used in 2 0.8(B)(2) is described as provided in the proposed new definition. The word kitchen is used many more times in the Code which necessitates a common definition for this word so uniform and consistent application of rules in the Code can be established.
CMP-2 found this definition to be sufficient for use in 210.8(B)(2).
Panel Meeting Action: Accept
Panel Statement: The panel recommends that the TCC forward this proposal
to CMP-2 for comment relative to removing 210.8(B)(2).
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12

This proposal was brought about due to all the questions that were being asked about wet bars and needed to be explained.
The ICC defines a kitchen in the building codes the same as it is here.
When I think about a kitchen I ask myself just what makes a kitchen. The way is see a kitchen is an area with a sink and a range. Dishwashers, disposals, refrigerators, microwaves and countertop appliances does not make a kitchen. There is no requirement that any of these appliances be installed in a kitchen area.
 
Check with the zoning dept. In my town, some places are not allowed to have more than 1 kitchen as we know it. So, IMO, it would just be a bar sink. If the area does not allow a duplex or an apartment above a garage, as in your case, cooking appliances would not be approved. Now, just how am I going to enforce someone installing a microwave after i sign off the card? During the inspections, I could not pass a range circuit installation.
 
He has pulled all the appropriate permits for the job, so I assume he's not in violation of zoning.

Anyway, my original question is moot. HO called me today and said he only wants me to install the new 200A service in the garage and will do all the interior wiring himself. Fine with me.
 
Why can't a home owner do their own wiring? There is no laws or codes against this work being done by them. I hope he gets a permit for the new wiring so a code professional can inspect it.
 
rcarroll said:
Check with the zoning dept. In my town, some places are not allowed to have more than 1 kitchen as we know it. So, IMO, it would just be a bar sink. If the area does not allow a duplex or an apartment above a garage, as in your case, cooking appliances would not be approved. Now, just how am I going to enforce someone installing a microwave after i sign off the card? During the inspections, I could not pass a range circuit installation.
Click to expand...
This happened at my x partners house.He added a 400 sq ft room for teen daughter.They rejected first set of plans that showed a small counter with sink,frig ,micro and range in this 1 room with bath addition and called it KITCHEN.I fixed his print in 5 seconds with whiteout and called it snack bar.Permit was issued
 
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I will read the entire thread before posting. I will read the entire thread before posting.
I will read the entire thread before posting. I will read the entire thread before posting.
I will read the entire thread before posting. I will read the entire thread before posting.
I will read the entire thread before posting. I will read the entire thread before posting.
 
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