residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

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a.wayne3@verizon.net

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Just wanted to know if the inspectors in your area are enforcing 300 5 D 5 UF is a pain but required.
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Yes, I wire homes in North Port, Sarasota just a few counties south of you I believe and we are required to use UF to islands and floor boxes. :)
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

it`s in the NEC but it`s in pipe......a dry location
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Alan, Maybe underground pipes in FL are dry.

Where I live underground pipes always seem to have some water in them and many times sections will be full of water.

If you are running UF why bother with a raceway at all?

Bob
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Its funny how us electricians can't seem to keep the water out, but plumbers seem to be able to keep the water in? :)

Some, like Charlie Trout, feel UF in an raceway is a violation. I don't really see an issue or problem. :)
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Bryan,
Some, like Charlie Trout, feel UF in an raceway is a violation.
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I know we've been through this before and I agree with you here.
I don't really see an issue or problem.
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I would go as far as to say the NEC allows cable assemblies such as NM or UF to be installed in conduit systems by the wording of 334.12(A)(1), this would imply NM could be run within a conduit, which in turn would allow UF per 340,10(4), then in chapter 9 "Notes to Tables" note 9 we are given the method to calculate these type cables for conduit fill.

Back to the reference of 334.12(A)(1) if NM is not allowed to be installed in a conduit (an enclosed run) why would the words"As open runs" need to be included?

Roger
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Originally posted by roger:
Back to the reference of 334.12(A)(1) if NM is not allowed to be installed in a conduit (an enclosed run) why would the words"As open runs" need to be included?
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To start with, I think "open runs" is a bad use of terminology and would be better stated as "exposed runs".

As a strick conformist code user, NM and the like sections don't specifically allow use in raceways per the 3XX.22 sections for raceways, but the common sensible code user realizes that with this issue the code does not necessarily have to specifically state the allowance for us to know that it is okay to do so. :)
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Technically, 334.15(B) doesn't give the permission needed. Using a raceway for protection is not the same as using it as a wiring method. Raceway installations have certain rules like 300.18(A) that are not required to be followed for 334.15(B).
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Bryan,
To start with, I think "open runs" is a bad use of terminology and would be better stated as "exposed runs".
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"exposed runs" may not have been the intent, therefor the term was never considered.

I would like to believe those spending so much time and effort to word a code section would have thought about this.

Of course I may be giving them to much credit, this may have been done on Monday morning or Friday afternoon. ;)


Roger
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Originally posted by roger:
"exposed runs" may not have been the intent, therefor the term was never considered.
Roger
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You may be right, but what would the problem be with "open runs" above dropped ceilings? The only thing that I can think of is if the ceiling and/or panels were to be removed, you would then have "exposed runs" of NM that were before just "open runs". I believe there may be a code change for this for the 2005? :)
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Bryan, I believe the whole reason for the feeble wording prohibiting NM above a drop ceiling in a commercial building was simply a trade off with the conduit and metallic cable manufacturers when NM was allowed in high rise applications.

This is just my opinion and nothing more.

Roger

[ April 25, 2004, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Roger, I believe the reason they changed that requirement, for the other than dwelling location is because of the results they reviewed from a smoke test performed on NM cable. It concerned them enough that they felt evacuating a public building before danger from smoke inhalation, warranted the change.

Pierre
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

GUYS GUYS Look at 300 5 D 5.cables and conductors installed in enclosures or raceways,Shall be listed for use in a wet location ( IE: I meant to say wet but typed dry in other post}This is underground in this article, but it is allowed there 340.10 underground /above ground ?????If someone wanted to you could wire a house in UF.Not me I hate using the stuff.But if a cable is allowed in a race way underground and UF and PVC meet these requirements.If it is allowed underground it has to start above ground and that area is part of the same underground installation.Derating has to be considered.OK who wants to do the math with UF
.Senario A kitchen knee wall that over looks the nook and the family room,D/W + DISP. GFCI,General purpose circuit since the family room side is larger than 2 ft. to feed the family room receptacle.Since the dining/nook or the 2 small appliance circuits can serve no other outlets.Right now i barely have the time to come here ........
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

SORRY JUST A BAAAAAAAAD DAY,THANKS.
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

You could always install j-boxes at each end of your conduit runs and pull some THWN if you hate using the UF so much?
 
Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

Originally posted by bphgravity:
Yes, I wire homes in North Port, Sarasota just a few counties south of you I believe and we are required to use UF to islands and floor boxes. :) [/QUOTE)Bryan either you are or you aren`t using UF in a slab!!Yes we could use thhn and J boxes,but the time involved is a waste.We started a large custom Friday it has 2 1 " conduits slabbed.It has all the things I previously said plus an insta hot and a cook top.
Previous to this nm was not a problem but with 8-3 we now have a nightmare.
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Re: residential kitchen island or floor box in a slab

I am using UF for this type of installation, as I have clearly stated in my first two posts? :p
 
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