Hello, and thank you for reading this post. I am getting conflicting reports that a residential main svc panel cannot be located a certain number of feet from the point of entry of the seu. I am in Northeast Pa, and have been told that the panel can be no more than 6, 10, and 12 feet from point of entry. Which is it, and where may I find this? Or is this a local ruling? Also, is that center of panel, or total length of the seu conductors? Thanks again--Scott
Residential panel location
- Thread starter swpetty
- Start date
- Status
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Residential panel location
230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
The NEC doesn't specify a distance but the local AHJ may. (Thanks Bill)
[ June 04, 2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: charlie ]
230.70(A)(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting means shall be installed at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors.
The NEC doesn't specify a distance but the local AHJ may. (Thanks Bill)
[ June 04, 2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: charlie ]
bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: Residential panel location
I think it would be more correct to say that the NEC doesn't specify a distance.
But yes, anyway, it's going to be a local ruling.
Bill
[ June 04, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
Charlie,
I think it would be more correct to say that the NEC doesn't specify a distance.
But yes, anyway, it's going to be a local ruling.
Bill
[ June 04, 2003, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: bill addiss ]
dwturbeville@yahoo.com
Member
Re: Residential panel location
We have this same issue in S.C. The argument is; at what point have you entered the residential structure? A)once entering the crawl space? B)once entering "penetrating" the floor?
We have this same issue in S.C. The argument is; at what point have you entered the residential structure? A)once entering the crawl space? B)once entering "penetrating" the floor?
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: Residential panel location
The rule of thumb with most AHJ's is "shortest distance possible". Remember, the SE cable between the meter pan and the breaker panel is "unfused". The meter in not an overcurrent device. If you install your breaker panel 6', 8' or 12' from the point of entry to the residence you're subjecting that portion of the cable to possible damage. If you happen to damage that cable there will be more than just a few sparks. If you don't have a choice as to where you can locate the panel ask your AHJ if you can sleeve that length of SE in PVC for protection. That still doesn't make it right but it will offer more protection. He/she has the final say. Don't make the decision on your own....it's far too costly to correct if it isn't permitted.
The rule of thumb with most AHJ's is "shortest distance possible". Remember, the SE cable between the meter pan and the breaker panel is "unfused". The meter in not an overcurrent device. If you install your breaker panel 6', 8' or 12' from the point of entry to the residence you're subjecting that portion of the cable to possible damage. If you happen to damage that cable there will be more than just a few sparks. If you don't have a choice as to where you can locate the panel ask your AHJ if you can sleeve that length of SE in PVC for protection. That still doesn't make it right but it will offer more protection. He/she has the final say. Don't make the decision on your own....it's far too costly to correct if it isn't permitted.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Residential panel location
dwturbeville,
Look at 230.6 for conductors that are considered outside a building. In the crawl space is within the building.
Don
dwturbeville,
Look at 230.6 for conductors that are considered outside a building. In the crawl space is within the building.
Don
Re: Residential panel location
This will be up to the AHJ, my point is that per the NEC, allowing the panel to be installed further away from the nearest point is a violation.
Sorry for any redundancy...
I know that the AHJ holds the whistle, but the code states "nearest" the point of entrance. This includes a craw space. Although you cannot install a panel in a craw space, respectively. But if you install your panel in the basement and run your SE conductors out 6, 10 ,or 12 feet just to get it to your "service" room. I see it as a violation of the NEC. The panel needs to be located nearest the point of entrance that will still provide working clearances spec'd in the NEC.
This will be up to the AHJ, my point is that per the NEC, allowing the panel to be installed further away from the nearest point is a violation.
Sorry for any redundancy...
dcl34769
Senior Member
- Location
- saint cloud,fl
Re: Residential panel location
In my personal opinion I don't like the idea of having unfused wires in the structure no matter how short. this is one change fo 2005 I would like to see. Our local code used to require DC on the outside of homes, but now has adopted 230.70(A)(1). Local codes are going away because contractors were complaining that in each different county they worked in was subject to different requirements.
In my personal opinion I don't like the idea of having unfused wires in the structure no matter how short. this is one change fo 2005 I would like to see. Our local code used to require DC on the outside of homes, but now has adopted 230.70(A)(1). Local codes are going away because contractors were complaining that in each different county they worked in was subject to different requirements.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Residential panel location
Cost is the one reason not to put an outside disconnect in place, space might be another one.
In areas that the outside disconnect is not automatically required, providing it may make getting the job difficult
If you are biding the job against company's that are doing the minimum allowed and you include an outside disconnect because it is a good idea you may not get the job.
In this case carrying it as an upgrade with an explanation in your bid to the customer may get you the job and a happy customer.
Cost is the one reason not to put an outside disconnect in place, space might be another one.
In areas that the outside disconnect is not automatically required, providing it may make getting the job difficult
If you are biding the job against company's that are doing the minimum allowed and you include an outside disconnect because it is a good idea you may not get the job.
In this case carrying it as an upgrade with an explanation in your bid to the customer may get you the job and a happy customer.
Re: Residential panel location
iwire:
I understand what you are saying about cost reduction or limitation--good point. Although, contractor should weigh the cost of the disconnect with the cost of the potential hazards...
Tim:
I hope that some other states' decision makers read your post. That sounds like a nice combo device--
iwire:
I understand what you are saying about cost reduction or limitation--good point. Although, contractor should weigh the cost of the disconnect with the cost of the potential hazards...
Tim:
I hope that some other states' decision makers read your post. That sounds like a nice combo device--
bill addiss
Senior Member
Re: Residential panel location
Bill
That doesn't sound bad to me at all. But meter enclosures can cost way more in some areas because of POCO requirements. Features required by our local POCO (Long Island) drove the standard meter enclosure up to near $100 and a 200A Meter Main combo to around $400.
Bill
Re: Residential panel location
I've used quite a few of the GE Meter Mains and like them. They are small in size, have feed thru lugs and space for 4 (1") breakers plus the main. The ones I use are sold as GE (GE main) and I beleive, manufactured by Midwest. $100 plus tax down south.
I've used quite a few of the GE Meter Mains and like them. They are small in size, have feed thru lugs and space for 4 (1") breakers plus the main. The ones I use are sold as GE (GE main) and I beleive, manufactured by Midwest. $100 plus tax down south.
Re: Residential panel location
scott- after 25 years of doing electrical installations in central ky. i can tell you that it is certainly a local ahj issue subject to the interpretation from nec 230-70(a)1.we are required here to keep the maximum distance from an outside meter location to the main breaker panel location of ten feet.again the main issue is that length of service conductor is not protected by any over-current means.i was told at one time that this ten foot rule came from an old code requirement that was changed years ago.
scott- after 25 years of doing electrical installations in central ky. i can tell you that it is certainly a local ahj issue subject to the interpretation from nec 230-70(a)1.we are required here to keep the maximum distance from an outside meter location to the main breaker panel location of ten feet.again the main issue is that length of service conductor is not protected by any over-current means.i was told at one time that this ten foot rule came from an old code requirement that was changed years ago.
radiopet
Senior Member
- Location
- Spotsylvania, VA
Re: Residential panel location
If the crawl area is large and fully allowed a normal stance and is again higher than 6 1/2 feet..is the panel not allowed in it...and if not where is this listed in the code with respect to the crawl space in general.
Just wanted to check something....where in the NEC does it say you can't have a panel in the craw space if you have the distance clearance as listed in 110-26 and access to the crawl space is 6 1/2 feet or more high and over 24 inches wide.Originally posted by ctroyp:
I know that the AHJ holds the whistle, but the code states "nearest" the point of entrance. This includes a craw space. Although you cannot install a panel in a craw space, respectively. But if you install your panel in the basement and run your SE conductors out 6, 10 ,or 12 feet just to get it to your "service" room. I see it as a violation of the NEC. The panel needs to be located nearest the point of entrance that will still provide working clearances spec'd in the NEC.
This will be up to the AHJ, my point is that per the NEC, allowing the panel to be installed further away from the nearest point is a violation.
Sorry for any redundancy...
If the crawl area is large and fully allowed a normal stance and is again higher than 6 1/2 feet..is the panel not allowed in it...and if not where is this listed in the code with respect to the crawl space in general.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Residential panel location
First the working space is thirty inches not twenty four. Second, all the criteria of 110.26 would have to be met as well as 408.17. Another concern would be accessibility to the panel. Would there be a six foot seven inch door or a thirty inch square door that would require some one to crawl through to gain access?
There is no direct statement that a panel can not be installed in a crawl space but people are supposed to apply a little common sense when doing work of this type. I would turn down a job before I would put my name on a permit to install a service in a crawl space of any kind. Yes I know that there are people out there that would, and argue that there is nothing wrong with doing this.
Just another thought, I like apple pie and Chevrolets too.
edited to say: the working space is 30" x 36"
[ March 01, 2005, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
First the working space is thirty inches not twenty four. Second, all the criteria of 110.26 would have to be met as well as 408.17. Another concern would be accessibility to the panel. Would there be a six foot seven inch door or a thirty inch square door that would require some one to crawl through to gain access?
There is no direct statement that a panel can not be installed in a crawl space but people are supposed to apply a little common sense when doing work of this type. I would turn down a job before I would put my name on a permit to install a service in a crawl space of any kind. Yes I know that there are people out there that would, and argue that there is nothing wrong with doing this.
Just another thought, I like apple pie and Chevrolets too.
edited to say: the working space is 30" x 36"
[ March 01, 2005, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Residential panel location
What size door allows access to the crawl space?
If it is a 30" by 30" then I would have to crawl through it, How about you?
What size door allows access to the crawl space?
If it is a 30" by 30" then I would have to crawl through it, How about you?
- Status