Residential Primary?

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shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
I have a customer that wants the POCO to supply a 400A 120/240 service, then he wants to install his own poles to run 4160v up his 3000' drive way.
The customer will own the transformers and the overhead line.

Any body know of any code issues with this?
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
I've, never had a residential customer do it, but plenty of commercial customers own MV systems. The residential runs I've seen far off the road were owned by the POCO, installed on a customer easement, with a contribution in aid to construction by the customer.

Not sure what you mean by 120/240 service THEN 4160 up the driveway unless the customer is going to install a step-up transformer. I don't see a problem with it as long as they follow code.

Not many regular residential customers could maintain a 4160, but they could always contract out the maintenance. Why would the customer just not take service at 4160 or better yet, let the POCO own the facilities?
 
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shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
POCO wants $17 per foot to run primary plus cost of poles. The customer can set his own poles as he owns the equipment(long story, he's an engineer). POCO will power up 120/240v 400A pedestal service. Then I would install cans and run the primary up hill to 2nd can and bring 400A service into home. Too much ledge to go UG. I have not seen anything for or against this install.
 
brantmacga

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
shepelec said:
POCO wants $17 per foot to run primary plus cost of poles. . . .
Click to expand...

poco is usually the cheapest game in town when it comes to this stuff; what price did you give the customer?

have you got the equipment to string up that much cable at those heights?
 
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shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
Customer is suppling all of the equipment, so far it is a lot less then the POCO will do it for. All I really have to do is make all the terminations for him. This guy is pretty sharp and I've known him for years or else I would not work it this way. :)
 
e57

e57

Senior Member
Location
San Francisco, CA
While back - while bidding on a 'what we lost' project - the residence was ~4K' from the POCO - and our proposal was for conduit for MV to be installed for the POCO to pull (according to thier spec's) for a pad mount near the building. Wer were much less than the POCO doing it, but not less than the contractor who won... :roll: Shortly after - we realized it was a good thing we lost... And that it became a huge head-ache for all involved...

That said - be VERY SURE YOU HAVE ALL OF YOUR BASES COVERED - and talk to your AHJ about it... What the POCO can do, and what you can do are often different...
 
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Cold Fusion

Senior Member
Location
way north
shepelec said:
I have a customer that wants the POCO to supply a 400A 120/240 service, then he wants to install his own poles to run 4160v up his 3000' drive way.
The customer will own the transformers and the overhead line.

Any body know of any code issues with this?
Click to expand...
I don't know of any. But I have only seen one. It was 2400V, about a mile.

The POCO supplied one pole about 200' up the access road and a normal 240V, 200A, service drop to his pole mounted meter/disconnect. A 2 pole, 60A CB fed a 15kva 2400/240/120 transformer. 5000' of pretty small al, 2 single conductors, direct burial, to his house, to another 2400/240/120 15kva transformer. One side of the 2400V grounded. He had a primary disconnect at the second transformer. The transformer secondary went direct to a 100A panel, 60A main.

He said the worst was getting all the land owners to allow him an easment. Second worst was the two weeks it took him to dig the ditch.

The only issues I see are naysayers and fear:cool: Of course, this one is 100kva, not 15kva and that is a bit heavier equipment.

cf
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Can he trick phone company into the poles ? About 24 years ago my property was about 5 poles away from poco lines. Friend at POCO suggested i ask for phone service first. That way he could use there poles and not charge me anything. Worked back then.
 
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Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Our shop just did a large home this way. I believe the POCO set a standard 240/120 single phase transformer then we installed a couple of MV transformers, one at each end. I don't know the exact distance or voltage but I know they had several (7-10?) 1600' pulls of MV cable to reach the home.

It's only money, right?
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
To me, future responsibility for maintenance and repairs would tip the scales to the "let the POCO do it" side.

At the very least, I'd look into having a single transformer at the head end. Why go down to 240v and back up again?
 
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shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
Unfortunately the POCO will not supply anything more than 120/240. They really are not too wild about customer owned primary either but they don't have much say about that. In fact all of the utilities will end at the bottom of the hill, He is going to run fiber up the driveway.:)
 
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Cold Fusion

Senior Member
Location
way north
sameguy said:
Kind of makes you wonder what a small coal fired cogen. goes for.
Dish tv?
Click to expand...
Coal fired cogen? How do you get electricity from the coal? Is that a steam TG for electric? Or a closed cycle? Either way - Yuck

I checked into coal for my house - just heat. I needed about 10T/year, and an $8K boiler. Then I either shovel 20,000 lbs of coal or get a feeder that costs as much as the boiler. Then it needs a heated hopper so the coal doesn't stop feeding. It looked like $40K installed. And they don't turn down very well.

I'd much rather buy diesel:D Or go for solar, fuel cells, batteries, wind, recip gen backp - any or all. There was an article in a recient IEEE journal (I think) on an island on the East Coast with all. It looked really nice - nothing that cubic money couldn't couldn't buy:roll:

cf
 
ceb58

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
LarryFine said:
To me, future responsibility for maintenance and repairs would tip the scales to the "let the POCO do it" side.
Click to expand...

OH no, agreeing with Larry again:grin: Dealing with winter storms taking down lines and / or poles. Let the responsibility fall to the poco.
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
shepelec said:
POCO wants $17 per foot to run primary plus cost of poles. The customer can set his own poles as he owns the equipment(long story, he's an engineer). POCO will power up 120/240v 400A pedestal service. Then I would install cans and run the primary up hill to 2nd can and bring 400A service into home. Too much ledge to go UG. I have not seen anything for or against this install.
Click to expand...
$17*3000 = $51k + another $4-5k for poles is about $55k. Seems high to me. Off the top of my head I would think that is at least twice what it should cost unless there is some weird terrain issue.
 
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