residential Q's

[olly]

Unfinished basement: Does Romex need to protected by conduit going down the wall to an gfci? Why does the furnace wire need to be protected? is flex good enough? When do you need to protect romex in an un-finished basement? Code is un clear to me.
protecting it while running horizontal? does that entail a 2x4 in front of it? When romex is exposed in a crawl space or un finished basement where does it need to be protected? I think this part of code is BS among others! Please help ASAP. I haven't don't much residential lately, Im realizing why. BS codes.

 

[JFletcher]

Unfinished basement: Does Romex need to protected by conduit going down the wall to an gfci? yesWhy does the furnace wire need to be protected?its NM, follows mostly the same rules as 14/12ga* is flex good enough?yes When do you need to protect romex in an un-finished basement?see below/335.15(C) Code is un clear to me.
protecting it while running horizontal?yes does that entail a 2x4 in front of it? that or running the NM thru bored holes in the joistsWhen romex is exposed in a crawl space or un finished basement where does it need to be protected?see below I think this part of code is BS among others! Please help ASAP. I haven't don't much residential lately, Im realizing why. BS codes.

most questions answered in red. Romex has to be protected up to 7' from the ground by usually EMT. Smaller cables cannot be run perpendicular to joists on the lower edge of the joist; you either need running boards or bored holes thru the joists.*Furnace cable 8ga or larger can be stapled to the bottom of the joists (334.15(C)).

Romex must be protected from physical damage or another wiring method used. I've seen many unfinished basements where the NM was stapled to the bottom of the joists; it gets used for hanging all sorts of crap, from clothes to fishing rods to kayaks.

Note that if you drill joists vs using running boards there are limitations on where you can drill those holes, how close they can be to one another, and their size, depending on the wood type. Also, running a lot of cables together may result in the need to derate their ampacity.

eta: while a lot of codes seem overkill/unnecessary, the ones on protecting NM are pretty good imo. The stuff is fairly easy to damage, especially 12 and 14ga. Not sure, but I think VA's IBC code allows running NM stapled to the bottom of joists in crawl spaces (not unfinished basements). I've seen tons of it run that way even in new construction. Personally I think it looks like garbage, especially when cables cross or several are trying to occupy the same 1 1/2" edge of the framing. If there isnt insulation all in the way, I almost always bore holes and run thru the framing rather than use running boards

 

[augie47]

My answers differ slightly from Mr Fletchers so you can take your pick.. when the Code isn't black & white we can just give opinions.

Unfinished basement: Does Romex need to protected by conduit going down the wall to an gfci?

Like most things, you will find this will differ by AHJs. Art 334.15(B) requires NM to be "protected from physical damage" which leaves the when and how up to the inspector and 334.15(C) requires NM "on a wall of an unfinshed basement to be in a conduit or protected per 300.4. Most often this is accomplished by one of the methods listed in 334.15(B) but some jurisdictions will allow romex following the building surface such as along the edge of a stud on a basement wall.

Why does the furnace wire need to be protected?is flex good enough?

Same rule {334.15(B)} applies although I think some areas have specific rules for furnace wiring.

When do you need to protect romex in an un-finished basement? Code is un clear to me.

On walls 334.15(B)and (C) applies as noted above, in joists, 334.15(C)

protecting it while running horizontal? does that entail a 2x4 in front of it?

If not covered, a 2 x 4 or some type running board is usually accepted (1 x 4 is acceptable locally)

When romex is exposed in a crawl space or un finished basement where does it need to be protected? I think this part of code is BS among others! Please help ASAP. I haven't don't much residential lately, Im realizing why. BS codes.

The run in or or a floor joist rule stands by its self. Below the joists, if it can be damaged by being struck by an object or by being pulled on, etc. it needs to be protected. Most of these type Code rules, albeit "BS" in your eyes, are a result of some incidents occurring resulting in damage or injury. Let my dogs or grandkids loose in an unfinsihed basement with unprotedcted romex and they might proved the need for the rules.
I will add that the State of TN amended the NEC to allow Romex on the bottom of joists in crawl spaces less than 4'6" high.

 

[jumper]

. Romex has to be protected up to 7' from the ground ......

Not a NEC, IRC, IBC, or VA state amendment. Local amendments are not allowed in VA.

While the section for protection against physical damage applies, no specific height is codified.

Not sure, but I think VA's IBC code allows running NM stapled to the bottom of joists in crawl spaces (not unfinished basements).

That is a state amendment to the IRC. The IBC was not amended for this allowance.

 

[JFletcher]

Not a NEC, IRC, IBC, or VA state amendment. Local amendments are not allowed in VA.

While the section for protection against physical damage applies, no specific height is codified.



That is a state amendment to the IRC. The IBC was not amended for this allowance.

I will have to find where I thought it was 7'. Note this is on walls, not on studs: e.g, mount a switch on a block wall at 48", and use NM, the NM has to be protected up to 7'(??).

and yes, I meant IRC. I claim "typo", even tho the B an R arent near each other on the keyboard.

 

[augie47]

I will have to find where I thought it was 7'. Note this is on walls, not on studs: e.g, mount a switch on a block wall at 48", and use NM, the NM has to be protected up to 7'(??).

In the past I've had inspectors state 8 ft based on 300.5(D)(1) as that, I believe, is the only Code reference to a height and physical damage.

and yes, I meant IRC. I claim "typo", even tho the B an R arent near each other on the keyboard.

I always blame "spellcheck"

 

[jumper]

I will have to find where I thought it was 7'.

There are areas that have this amendment, ie San Francisco, just not VA. May be a job spec though.

 

[mopowr steve]

I will have to find where I thought it was 7'. Note this is on walls, not on studs: e.g, mount a switch on a block wall at 48", and use NM, the NM has to be protected up to 7'(??).

and yes, I meant IRC. I claim "typo", even tho the B an R arent near each other on the keyboard.

I too, at one point also read of a 7' rule somewhere. May have to look back in 90's code cycles.