Residential relay switching

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Aaron@york

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Fort Collins, CO, larimer
At a house built in the 1950’s, and the light switches are operated on 35 volts with relays in the fixture boxes. Has any one ever seen this before? The home owner complained of the switches not working when pushed, and if they worked, a loud thud in the attic. We assume the thud is the relay closing, but one of the fixtures only works some times. The light will flash and then every now and again it will stay on like normal operation. What’s the best way to work with this type of switching and what is the best way to trouble shoot problem relays? Thank you for your help.
 
Find your relay panel. Attic in this case, I suppose.

If you're not familiar with it, it's going to be difficult to tell you how to troubleshoot it through a discussion forum

Google "1950s relay lighting" and click on the images tab. This will tell you what you're going to be looking at
 
James L said:
Find your relay panel. Attic in this case, I suppose.

If you're not familiar with it, it's going to be difficult to tell you how to troubleshoot it through a discussion forum

Google "1950s relay lighting" and click on the images tab. This will tell you what you're going to be looking at
Click to expand...

My Dad called it touchplate
 
That sounds like a GE RR relay system. You can still get parts. It's just a bunch of latching relays, usually in a box or two in the attic, tied to low voltage switches.

If it's well kept it's easy to work on. If it's not well kept it's still easy to work on, the wires and relays will be in a jumbled mess is all.
 
170923-2118 EDT

In the 1950s there were several manufacturers of switching systems for residential or commercial applications using low voltage for control.

Two of the good sources were GE and Sq-D. The rest were junk. Sq-D did not stay in the business long. GE is still there, and I have about 50 of their relays in my home. None make a big clunk. Mine are quite quiet.

A selling approach was on lowering cost. I think this was a mistake because I don't think you could ever show a cost saving. These should have been sold on their logical control flexibility.

There are two ways to create a low voltage switching system. One is to place the relay at or close to the load being switched. This is noisier and harder to maintain, but supposedly lowers installation cost. The other approach is to locate the relays in gang boxes generally located in the region of the loads. I have two gang boxes in the basement. One on the first floor near the laundry area. Two in the attic, and one in the garage.

All my control switches are SPDT spring return to center, with up as all always meaning on.

To troubleshoot your problem find out who manufactured the relays, and then find out how the relay works. If GE or Sq-D we can tell you how the circuit works.

Your 35 V value many sound high for GE, but not high as I applied my system.

.
 
oldsparky52 said:
I've only seen a couple of these, and they both were relays in a larger box (30"x 24" or so). Pretty simple and easy, LV wire to switch and line voltage from relay to light.
Click to expand...
I've worked on several of them, from about 12"x12" up to larger ones like you mentioned.

the smaller ones had 6-8 relays in them, the larger ones about 32.

I've seen as many as 4 relay panels in one house - garage, basement, and two in the attic.

the interesting part is how all the low voltage is connected. I've seen panels which had dual bus (relay neutrals under screws on one bus, and commons out to switches connect under screws on the other bus).

I've also seen the rat's nest look where everything is just connected with wire nuts or crimp caps. and in this kind, I've seen where the low voltage and line voltage are separated from each other, and also where it's all just jumbled together

Those ones with the dual bus bars are usually clean and easy to figure out.

But if a guy is totally unfamiliar with it, he can get overwhelmed by a rat's nest.

I was just working on some this past week in an industrial/office setting. they didn't even have relay panels, they just put the relays in the 1900 boxes where the lighting whips came out. and the low voltage was just strung through the ceiling like phone wire
 
170925-2103 EDT

Aaron@york:

Suppose your system does not use GE RR relays, then it may be possible to substitute an RR relay without great effort. But we need to know how the relays work in your system.

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