residential service ground

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

David S.

Member
Location
Lockport New York
one of my first lessons as an electrician was the difference between ground and neutral after the first means of disconnect. I was told today that code was changed in 2014. Is this true?
 
David S. said:
one of my first lessons as an electrician was the difference between ground and neutral after the first means of disconnect. I was told today that code was changed in 2014. Is this true?
Click to expand...

I don't understand your question. Difference between ground and neutral?
 
As Bill stated more information is required but it sounds like you're asking about the different between the neutral conductor and the equipment grounding conductor (EGC) once you get past the service disconnect. Let's start with who has said that there was a code change and what was their source of information?

Welcome to the Forum. :)
 
sorry . i guess instead of asking is this true. I should have said how is this possible. To clarify I opened a main breaker panel. and the neutrals and grounds were under the same buss bar. and grounded to the to the panel.when I pointed this out to the the electrician on the job site he told me that the code was changed in 2014. am I missing something. I didn't realize this was a code.but how a 3 wire system functioned.
 
I have to say Im sorry again no wonder you didn,t understand the question . the neutral and ground were seperated at the first means of disconnect. there was also a sub panel which had both neutral and ground under the same buss.
 
David S. said:
I have to say Im sorry again no wonder you didn,t understand the question . the neutral and ground were seperated at the first means of disconnect. there was also a sub panel which had both neutral and ground under the same buss.
Click to expand...
That's reversed. The neutrals and grounds should be on the same neutral bar in the main panel and should be separated in the sub panel.
 
David S. said:
sorry . i guess instead of asking is this true. I should have said how is this possible. To clarify I opened a main breaker panel. and the neutrals and grounds were under the same buss bar. and grounded to the to the panel.when I pointed this out to the the electrician on the job site he told me that the code was changed in 2014. am I missing something. I didn't realize this was a code.but how a 3 wire system functioned.
Click to expand...
There was no such change. The most recent changes that are somewhat close to this situation changed the other way around and required separate grounding conductor where you used to be able to use the neutral for equipment grounding, in past 50+ years they never added conditions to combine neutral and grounding conductors beyond the service or source of a separately derived system.
 
That's what I thought. But this "electrician" was quite adamant about the whole thing. I haven't worked as an electrician in the residential field in over 15 years. There's been a lot of changes so I didn't push the fact that the ground and neutral are the same at the first means of disconnect. Am I wrong to assume that this is not a code that would ever change. The way it was explained to me was it is a major safety factor. Thanks for your input.
 
David S. said:
That's what I thought. But this "electrician" was quite adamant about the whole thing. I haven't worked as an electrician in the residential field in over 15 years. There's been a lot of changes so I didn't push the fact that the ground and neutral are the same at the first means of disconnect. Am I wrong to assume that this is not a code that would ever change. The way it was explained to me was it is a major safety factor. Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...

Has been like that for 100 years with no end in sight for the safety factor that you've mentioned.
 
David S. said:
That's what I thought. But this "electrician" was quite adamant about the whole thing. I haven't worked as an electrician in the residential field in over 15 years. There's been a lot of changes so I didn't push the fact that the ground and neutral are the same at the first means of disconnect. Am I wrong to assume that this is not a code that would ever change. The way it was explained to me was it is a major safety factor. Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, there is no difference between the grounding in residential vs any other building/structure. Other than a few things like "structural steel" in a building, ground rings, etc.
But the main point of grounding bonding is the same be it residential or other.
 
David S. said:
That's what I thought. But this "electrician" was quite adamant about the whole thing. I haven't worked as an electrician in the residential field in over 15 years. There's been a lot of changes so I didn't push the fact that the ground and neutral are the same at the first means of disconnect. Am I wrong to assume that this is not a code that would ever change. The way it was explained to me was it is a major safety factor. Thanks for your input.
Click to expand...

Note that we need to bond the EGC's to the grounded conductor to have a back to the source to trip the OCPD during a fault. The only way this could ever change would if there was a drastic change in how we do things, like going with ungrounded systems, or the utility serving us with separate neutrals and grounds and the bond point on the utility side. Perhaps this was a detached structure served by a feeder and not a service? If so, that is a code that has recently changed as we cant "rebond" the neutral and ground in a remote structure anymore.
 
electrofelon said:
Note that we need to bond the EGC's to the grounded conductor to have a back to the source to trip the OCPD during a fault. The only way this could ever change would if there was a drastic change in how we do things, like going with ungrounded systems, or the utility serving us with separate neutrals and grounds and the bond point on the utility side. Perhaps this was a detached structure served by a feeder and not a service? If so, that is a code that has recently changed as we cant "rebond" the neutral and ground in a remote structure anymore.
Click to expand...
Yes that was a somewhat recent change, but doesn't jive with what the guy mentioned in post 4 was saying to justify what he had done.
 
David S. said:
I opened a main breaker panel. and the neutrals and grounds were under the same buss bar. and grounded to the to the panel.when I pointed this out to the the electrician on the job site he told me that the code was changed in 2014. am I missing something. I didn't realize this was a code.but how a 3 wire system functioned.
Click to expand...


Just because people claim to be electricians doesn't mean they know anything. Just bcause they have a tool belt doesn't mean anything.

About 15 years ago I get a call from a couple of Union electricians( they said, probably industrial) from the North East and they were out of work and in the south and had found an old house to rewire and needed a permit. I told them I couldn't sell them a permit but if their work looked good I could take over the job and pay for work already accomplished. The house was gutted so everything was exposed.

The job was one of the biggest messes I have ever seen. I wouldn't touch it but when I started to explain everything they had done wrong they were very upset. I don't think either of them had ever opened a code book and were going on about how they do things back home.
These guys put the panel in a clothes closet and said that's where the old one was. The house was gutted so what difference would that make? They had a lot of excuses and nothing done right.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top