Residential service pole install

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nate roach

Member
Location
McKinleyville Ca
I need to install a new service pole for a customer on his property as the existing pole is about one storm away from going down. You guys got any fancy ways to get the new pole up without heavy equipment? Said pole needs to be 16+ft out of the ground and 5 ft. in, so im guessing its going to be a 25' pole. I was thinking about trying a snatch block straped to the POCOs pole about 30 ft away.:roll:. I might be able to get my hands on a backhoe, but that seems kinda iffy to me as well, because if it were to fall in the wrong direction it would take out the neighbors service. What say you?
 
M

macmikeman

Senior Member
Location
Planet macmikeman
Just hire a Chinese scaffolding company to help you. They seem to be quite good at configuring bamboo highrise derrecks.
the_bamboo_scaffold.jpg
 
N

nate roach

Member
Location
McKinleyville Ca
mcclary's electrical said:
call the poco
Click to expand...
Do they do pro bono work?:grin:

They were called and came to the property and this is what they wanted us to do. It is the HO's pole, not the POCO's (they bring service to the property line). Im sure they would put it in but this job site is about as rural as you can get in Northern Cali, and im sure they would want big $$$ to get out there and do it. So with that said...I mount the pole and install new service and the poco hooks it up. So step 1.. how do I get that pole standing?? Like I said in the OP Ive got a couple ideas but they are just that. so beside calling the poco and spendin 5 grand to install a pole what do you all think is the best way to approach this? thanks in advance! ~Nate
 
S

satcom

Senior Member
We used a back hoe contractor for those jobs, they have the insurances for that type of work, they dig and set the pole, and you can mark up the cost.
 
N

nate roach

Member
Location
McKinleyville Ca
satcom said:
We used a back hoe contractor for those jobs, they have the insurances for that type of work, they dig and set the pole, and you can mark up the cost.
Click to expand...

Well I might be able to get a backhoe from one of the neighbors, but I doubt insurance goes with it. This job is so far from anywhere that to get anybody/equipment up there is gonna cost ALOT. Folks are cheap these days, which means we gotta be resourceful.
 
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nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
Some POCO's have a first pole free policy. Whether its a road clearance issue or the service is on the back of the house from the road.

I just got one at my house. Added a garage, needed a pole for clearance over the street, the garage is set back over 100' from the street. The lines were on the other side of the street.

The pole and install was free, there was a $25 easement paperwork fee. If a second pole was needed they said $1600 and up.

Can't hurt to ask.
 
John25

John25

Member
Location
West of 480
I guess I am old fashioned (or dumb). We have a pick-up with a rack. You get the truck the appropriate distance from the hole..slide pole back.. set butt-end in hole...back truck up.
 
G

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
100318-1351q EST

nate:

Do some mechanical analysis.

Dig a 7 ft deep hole and a 45 deg angled trench to the hole. Thus length of trench is 7 ft. Lay pole over trench with the pole base end over 7 ft deep end. This puts the pole initial pivot point at 7 ft along the pole. Assume uniform density of pole from one end to the other. Then the center of gravity is at 12.5 ft. But actually the pole is heavier at the base. Assume the pole weighs 100 #/ft. You can make the trench longer and it reduces the initial forces.

If you put a pulley 18 ft above the center of the hole with a rope from the top end of the pole thru the pulley to an adequate truck or car, then you can lift the pole.

The pivot point of the pole over the trench is 7 ft from the pole base. The torque to the base side is about 2450 #-ft, and that to the top side is about 16,200 #-ft. For a net torque to overcome to raise the pole of about 13750 #-ft. Perpendicular to the top end of the pole it will take about 760 # force to lift the pole. A rope at a 36 deg angle will have a tension of about 760/.58 = 1310 #.

Once you reach 45 deg the pivot point shifts to the bottom end of the pole. At this point the downward torque is 2500*12.5*0.707 = 22093 #-ft. The required rope tension perpendicular to the pole top end is 22093/25 = 883 #. But the rope will be about 22.5 deg from perpendicular to the pole so the rope tension is about 883/.92 = 960 #. Now you could shift to a long rope and no pulley. Calculate the rope tension. It will be somewhat greater than 960 #.

As the pole rises the force required diminishes. You need guide ropes and people on those ropes for guidance.

Do I recommend this? NO. Are my calculations and assumptions correct? Have someone else check them. My guess is that your pole weight may be closer to 25 to 50 # per foot.

.
 
O

One-eyed Jack

Senior Member
Location
Scotland Neck, NC
nate roach said:
Do they do pro bono work?:grin:

They were called and came to the property and this is what they wanted us to do. It is the HO's pole, not the POCO's (they bring service to the property line). Im sure they would put it in but this job site is about as rural as you can get in Northern Cali, and im sure they would want big $$$ to get out there and do it. So with that said...I mount the pole and install new service and the poco hooks it up. So step 1.. how do I get that pole standing?? Like I said in the OP Ive got a couple ideas but they are just that. so beside calling the poco and spendin 5 grand to install a pole what do you all think is the best way to approach this? thanks in advance! ~Nate
Click to expand...

Do it with manpower like the Poco used to . Dig the hole,tough in and of itself if you don't have the tools. Drop one end in with a two by six at a 45 degree angle . End of pole sits against two by which is held in place by a man. Three pike poles and three more MEN. Walk it up until it falls in hole.
 
N

nate roach

Member
Location
McKinleyville Ca
gar said:
100318-1351q EST

nate:

Do some mechanical analysis.

Dig a 7 ft deep hole and a 45 deg angled trench to the hole. Thus length of trench is 7 ft. Lay pole over trench with the pole base end over 7 ft deep end. This puts the pole initial pivot point at 7 ft along the pole. Assume uniform density of pole from one end to the other. Then the center of gravity is at 12.5 ft. But actually the pole is heavier at the base. Assume the pole weighs 100 #/ft. You can make the trench longer and it reduces the initial forces.

If you put a pulley 18 ft above the center of the hole with a rope from the top end of the pole thru the pulley to an adequate truck or car, then you can lift the pole.

The pivot point of the pole over the trench is 7 ft from the pole base. The torque to the base side is about 2450 #-ft, and that to the top side is about 16,200 #-ft. For a net torque to overcome to raise the pole of about 13750 #-ft. Perpendicular to the top end of the pole it will take about 760 # force to lift the pole. A rope at a 36 deg angle will have a tension of about 760/.58 = 1310 #.

Once you reach 45 deg the pivot point shifts to the bottom end of the pole. At this point the downward torque is 2500*12.5*0.707 = 22093 #-ft. The required rope tension perpendicular to the pole top end is 22093/25 = 883 #. But the rope will be about 22.5 deg from perpendicular to the pole so the rope tension is about 883/.92 = 960 #. Now you could shift to a long rope and no pulley. Calculate the rope tension. It will be somewhat greater than 960 #.

As the pole rises the force required diminishes. You need guide ropes and people on those ropes for guidance.

Do I recommend this? NO. Are my calculations and assumptions correct? Have someone else check them. My guess is that your pole weight may be closer to 25 to 50 # per foot.

.
Click to expand...



Gar thank you! thats the info I was kinda looking for. No matter how I figure it it's gonna be tough, do-able but somewhat dangerous. Although a Chinese bamboo scaffolding crew sound good as well(thanks macmike)
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I would put the line underground especially if you are going to have to spend $5K to get proper equipment for setting a pole out there.

It will look better and will never fall down.

You said you may have a backhoe available dig a trench with it.
 
petersonra

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Just the pole itself is a $500 item. Going and picking it up and bringing it to the site is not free. The labor to dig and put the thing in the ground is not free.

By the time you get done paying for all the things that are not free, the $ the POCO wants to put it in may start to sound like a bargain.

In a lot of places the utility companies use private contractors to install poles. Maybe one of them? Maybe the phone company would do it cheaper?

Does it have to be a wooden pole?
 
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mcclary's electrical

mcclary's electrical

Senior Member
Location
VA
nate roach said:
Do they do pro bono work?:grin:

They were called and came to the property and this is what they wanted us to do. It is the HO's pole, not the POCO's (they bring service to the property line). Im sure they would put it in but this job site is about as rural as you can get in Northern Cali, and im sure they would want big $$$ to get out there and do it. So with that said...I mount the pole and install new service and the poco hooks it up. So step 1.. how do I get that pole standing?? Like I said in the OP Ive got a couple ideas but they are just that. so beside calling the poco and spendin 5 grand to install a pole what do you all think is the best way to approach this? thanks in advance! ~Nate
Click to expand...




I can't speak for there,,,,but around here, even if it's ho owned, the poco does that work cheaper than anybody. I have learned that there is NO NEED to even bid against the powere company around here,,,,,,,very, very cheap. Way cheaper than I can do for. Am I right, Larry?
 
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