I'm not quite sure about this installation I saw yesterday. I went to a single family home with a detached garage. The meter and overhead service is located on the detached garage. The home is fed underground from meter to a panel in the home. My questions are: Is this treated as a normal service or does it need a disconnect below the meter? Not sure if the existing set up is code compliant? Any input would be great. Thanks.
Residential service question
- Thread starter chris1971
- Start date
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CTCOX
Member
- Location
- Bettendorf, IA
Let me ask you this, is there a panel in the garage or does it go straight from the meter to the house and then back to the garage on a seperate branch circuit. If this is the case, imagine a cable fault between the meter and the house. What would melt down first, the meter base which is attached to the garage (= possible fire) or the transformer supplying voltage from the POCO (= transformer lid goes boom, oil spill and possible customer responsibility of cost due to customer owned equip.). Check out 230.90 (A). Hope that helps.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
It sounds no different than a typical 400A setup where two 200A panels are supplied from the same meter. I'm not seeing a concern.
yucan2
Senior Member
- Location
- Just south of Chicago
The highlighted item is complied with in the panel in the home. I don't see any violation.
CTCOX
Member
- Location
- Bettendorf, IA
The panel in the home will not protect the supply lines from the meter. I see the unique application of this description is the location of the meter and the UG lines. If you set a Customer owned pole in the yard with a meter on the pole, would you not put a disconnect on the pole after the meter? My concern is the the ownership of the UG wire, after the meter = customer, before the meter = POCO.
yucan2
Senior Member
- Location
- Just south of Chicago
I see what you mean and in some instances, not necessarily the one you used an illustration, I might install a disconnect. However OP's question was, is the installation code compliant.? In my mind, it is.
In your example you mentiion the UG cable as not being the POCO's responsibilty, well neither are the conductors on the line side of the meter in the service riser leading up to the service head. Same thing, but point well taken.
CTCOX
Member
- Location
- Bettendorf, IA
I'll leave it here, but the there is a difference between OH lines and UG lines. If it went OH to the house, I would say he is code compliant, but since it is UG, I refer back to 230.90. If you can explain around 230.90, I'll agree, but till then....
buck33k
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington state and North Carolina
Not sure from the OP if there is a panel behind the meter on the garage. In any event, I see no problem. Read 230.40 ex. 3. Single family dwelling. This allows one set of service conductors run to each (house and garage) from a single service drop or lateral.
Best to check with the utility also.
Best to check with the utility also.
CTCOX
Member
- Location
- Bettendorf, IA
Service entrance conductors are conductors prior to the meter, so 230.40 would not apply.
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
I'll leave it here, but the there is a difference between OH lines and UG lines. If it went OH to the house, I would say he is code compliant, but since it is UG, I refer back to 230.90. If you can explain around 230.90, I'll agree, but till then....
So how do you explain underground services that run underground from the pole to the meter?
If the feeders are outside the walls of the home, they do not need to be protected by an overcurrent device.
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
That includes feeders that run from the meter along the bottom of an outside wall to the back of the house where the panel is.
buck33k
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington state and North Carolina
Refer to Art. 100. Definitions. Service entrance conductors.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Service entrance conductors include conductors up to the first disconnect. If I install a meter on my house and run a conduit around the perimeter outside the house to get to the backside, then I would not need a disco until I penetrate the structure.
I have done a similiar install with a meter on the garage. I ran 2" PVC under the slab of the garage and enter the first wall common to the house and then installed my disconnect panel. Perfectly legit.
CTCOX
Member
- Location
- Bettendorf, IA
Art. 100 - Service entrance Conductors = Service equip (transformer) to service lateral.
Service lateral = transformer to first point of connection (including meter). After the meter is not a service entrance conductor. Like I said in a previous post, if there is a work around of 230.90 I will agree, OR if your AHJ and POCO will approve it, go for it. Although be aware, if a customer owned cable (after the meter) faults and causes damage to POCO facilities, or even a neighbors facilities, the Home owner could be held responsible. Without a disconnect on the UG lines, there is no protection between Customer owned equipment and the POCO.
Service lateral = transformer to first point of connection (including meter). After the meter is not a service entrance conductor. Like I said in a previous post, if there is a work around of 230.90 I will agree, OR if your AHJ and POCO will approve it, go for it. Although be aware, if a customer owned cable (after the meter) faults and causes damage to POCO facilities, or even a neighbors facilities, the Home owner could be held responsible. Without a disconnect on the UG lines, there is no protection between Customer owned equipment and the POCO.
we did it this way(needed or not)
we did it this way(needed or not)
we had an existing (1950's) 200 amp aerial service coming to a meter attached to a to pole barn located 250 feet from the house it serviced...the pole barn had no electric...from the meter they went underground directly to the house panel...when we did the changeover we replaced everything including the underground wires...the inspector said he wanted a 200 amp disconnect at the point of entry to the house....i was not planing on this but i did it and got paid...to this day i do not know if it was required or not....
we did it this way(needed or not)
we had an existing (1950's) 200 amp aerial service coming to a meter attached to a to pole barn located 250 feet from the house it serviced...the pole barn had no electric...from the meter they went underground directly to the house panel...when we did the changeover we replaced everything including the underground wires...the inspector said he wanted a 200 amp disconnect at the point of entry to the house....i was not planing on this but i did it and got paid...to this day i do not know if it was required or not....
It goes from the meter on the garage to the house panel. The garage is fed from the house panel to a sub panel in the garage.
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growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
Yes it would depend a lot more on the location of the panel than anything stated so far to meet today's code.
Also it would depend on when this install was done. If it was installed years ago and the panel was somewhere in the middle of the house it wouldn't necessarly meet today's code but would be legal because it was approved at the time of install.
There are plenty of homes with unprotected service cable running all through the house. Heck the cable runs through the house even before going to the meter and then back throught the house before being protected by a breaker. First breaker is at the panel. Wouldn't pass today but still legal.
buck33k
Senior Member
- Location
- Washington state and North Carolina
Sounds similar to the OP. You would be required to have the disconnect at the house (either outside or inside nearest the point of entrance of the service conductors) per 230.70 as the inspector said.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
If the entire house were on a slab I could run that PVC under the slab and come up anywhere and install the panel at the nearest point of entry. Entry would be where the PVC exits the slab. I believe-- I am certain-- that will pass with today's code
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