Residential Subpanel Advice

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Jimmy7

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Location
Boston, MA
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Electrician
I have to add two single 20 amp AFCI circuits to a single family home that has a 100 amp Square D QO panel (Picture attached). This is the first time I will be doing work at this residence. It appears that someone has fed the range with a 60 Amp DP breaker, and the Dryer with a 50 Amp DP breaker, these are the largest loads.

I was thinking of adding a 6 or 8 circuit MLO panel and feeding it with a 60 amp breaker. I would feed the MLO panel with #6 THHN and a #8 ground. As you can see the neutral bar is a bit jammed, so I'm concerned about fitting the neutral and ground of a subpanel on there. Do they make a lug that you could add this type of Square D neutral bar? Is the subpanel the way to go, or do you have any other ideas? The homeowner has no intentions of adding onto the house, or having the service upgraded. Thank you for your help

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This?
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ETA: The panel you show may be too old to accept this lug?
 
take a group of ground wires use a big blue wire nut( not exceeding its rating) and then pigtail the largest conductor back to the bar. This will free up more than you need.
Does square D make Quad Breakers or twins that would solve your other problem. I don't use Square D Reb in my areas is a jerk !!!
 
This is a perfect situation to use one of those little eight port Wago push-in connectors. Take seven grounds out of the neutral bar, push them in the connector, and then run one pigtail back to the neutral bar. No worrying about overfilling a big blue wirenut.
A ground bar serves no purpose other than taking money out of your pocket. There won’t be any expansion in that panel so no reason to make extra spaces.

This panel is a perfect candidate for replacement. Instead of adding a subpanel to that mess, it wouldn’t cost all that much more to just replace the panel with a larger one, making it neater and giving them lots of future expansion space.
 
BadLarry said:
This panel is a perfect candidate for replacement. Instead of adding a subpanel to that mess, it wouldn’t cost all that much more to just replace the panel with a larger one, making it neater and giving them lots of future expansion space.
Click to expand...
It would cost me quite a bit more to replace the panel compared to just adding a Sub panel.
 
AC\DC said:
It would cost me quite a bit more to replace the panel compared to just adding a Sub panel.
Click to expand...
How much? Maybe $700-800 more? Seems like a good investment for the homeowner to make to last another 40 to 50 years.

That panel looks terrible and subpanel seems more like a Band-Aid.
 
Since they won't go for a new service just add the sub-panel. I would just splice a bunch of EGC's together as others have suggested. Maybe you can at least get the customer to spring for a few bucks and let you clean up the mess.
 
I've replaced a bunch of those same panels. It seems the lugs would melt . People were adding on to their houses. New appliances, heat pumps etc...
They're usually piped in EMT . I leave the conduit installed . Install a new MLO inside panel. Pull in some #3cu, use the conduit as the grounding. Install a 200 amp 20/40 outside panel. Re-feed the inside panel with a 100 and usually move the condensing unit, heat strips to the outside panel. Change the meter too. Finally run the #4 to the water line if one.
 
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Looks like there may be a few places where the ground and neutral are sharing a terminal - this will have to be cleaned up as well...
 
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