Residential townhomes meter and panelboard

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hhsting

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Glen bunie, md, us
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Junior plan reviewer
I have residential townhomes. Each townhome is fed by its own electric utility service. I have utility meter outside the wall of the townhome and the main service with main circuit breaker panelboard is inside about four feet from the meter outside. The cable provided in between is SE cable without conduit inside townhome wall which feed main service panelboard. Please see attached sketch.

Does the NEC 2014 allow SE cable without conduit to penetrate walls of the townhome and still inside wall come into panelboard without being installed in conduit?

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SE cab;e is a permitted wiring method for service conductors unless there is a local amendment.
How far you can run it inside depends on how YOUR AHJ reads 230.70(A)(1). For some 4' will comply with the "nearest the point of entry" and for others it will not.
I tend to read "nearest" as meaning exactly that...you enter into the structure and go directly into the service equipment.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
SE cab;e is a permitted wiring method for service conductors unless there is a local amendment.
How far you can run it inside depends on how YOUR AHJ reads 230.70(A)(1). For some 4' will comply with the "nearest the point of entry" and for others it will not.
I tend to read "nearest" as meaning exactly that...you enter into the structure and go directly into the service equipment.
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But the question is does NEC 2014 allow SE cable used as service entrance cable to be concealed within walls Without conduit for that short distance less than 4 feet?
 
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tom baker said:
Did you check in the SE cable article uses allowed?
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It refers back to 230.6, 230.7, and parts II, III and IV of section 230. I didn’t see anything concealed within walls Without conduit allow or not? By walls I mean drywall in the garage where it enters less 4 feet. Can you please elaborate?
 
retirede said:
Since you are acting on behalf of the AHJ, it’s your call.... is 4’ OK or not?
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But thats not the question that I am asking. Question is SE cable can be concealed within drywalls walls or not inside for less than 4 feet. Question is about conceal SE cables in drywalls
 
hhsting said:
But thats not the question that I am asking. Question is SE cable can be concealed within drywalls walls or not inside for less than 4 feet. Question is about conceal SE cables in drywalls
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IMO no. That would not be nearest the point of entry of the conductors. Doesn't matter if it's SE cable, PVC, EMT, RMC, all the same requirements.
 
hhsting said:
I am plans reviewer for the AHJ..
Question is about conceal SE cables in drywalls
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As AHJ I'd error on the side caution, require conduit, and suggest a local amendment.

If no authority backs me in Art.230, I'd argue unacceptable exposure to liability where either subject to damaged, improper electrode or nuetral for inside DC, using SE cable.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The NEC does not prohibit that use for SE. The only question is if 4' is nearest the point of entry.
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Agreed. To me it's a two-part question:

1. Is SE cable permitted within walls? I say yes.

2. Is 4' of interior service permitted without an outside main. I say maybe.

Is your question whether it's the cable type or the penetration distance that is in question?

If the latter, an outside main and SER cable would be the fix. Conduit doesn't change anything.
 
His confusion could be from 230.50(B)(1) which the SE cable section 338.12(A) takes you to in regards to protection from damage. Basically, that section requires conduit around SECs or "other approved means". There is no exposed or concealed keyword to leverage from, it seems to cover all installs. But the cable has to be subject to physical damage for the 230.51(B)(1) mitigations to be required.

You need to determine if your AHJ has some common guidance for what is exposed to physical damage, is SE Cable concealed in walls subject to damage, and if so what are the options for "other approved means". Nail plates would most likely be required on 2x4 studs because of the cable diameter, is that enough? 2x6 walls only? Plywood plus drywall? Is it never OK? I think many areas permit exposed SE cable for services with means other than conduit for protection (e.g. height because it isn't considered subject to damage, or guard boards). So this should be a common question. AHJs should have common answers for common questions, and not different people making exceptions. It breeds contempt when one person gets a yes and another gets a no for the same install.

What is exposed to physical damage is the biggest gray area I see between AHJs and individual inspectors. I'd like to see a standard list or set of pictures from the AHJ showing installs considered not subject to or protected from physical damage with some emphasis on why each picture was judged in compliance (e.g. guarded by pipe, in a corner, over 8' above ground, guard boards, in a masonry groove, metal sleeve, PVC sleeve, rubber hose sleeve, drywall wall covering...).
 
Clearly an AHJ (or your call if you are advising him).. As noted in Post #2 NEC says "nearest point of entry".. Some jurisdictions would permit, some won't, some would if in conduit, etc.
 
In my state only health care and schools have plan review. There is a charge per sheet for that. simple stuff like this townhouse the AHJ will catch on inspection. The EC is supposed to know the code
And in Washington, we can't use SE cable for service entrances. Been that way perhaps since the 60s', don't know why its not allowed. An electrician from here that goes back east and sees SE cable on the side of a building has to look twice.
 
augie47 said:
Clearly an AHJ (or your call if you are advising him).. As noted in Post #2 NEC says "nearest point of entry".. Some jurisdictions would permit, some won't, some would if in conduit, etc.
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How far the unfused conductors varies widely by jurisdiction. No feet, 2 feet, 2, 4 5, here its 15 ft of raceway, but very limited on what can be used, example no EMT.
 
Even if the jurisdiction allows a certain number of feet inside of the structure I doubt that they would allow SE cable run inside of the wall without any overcurrent protection.
 
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