erikuplegger
New member
can a home owner have help with istalling electrical if the permit is in his name.
residentural electrical
- Thread starter erikuplegger
- Start date
- Status
M
mkoloj
Guest
Re: residentural electrical
You might want to talk to the AHJ where the permit was pulled.
You might want to talk to the AHJ where the permit was pulled.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: residentural electrical
residentural?
residentural?
beanland
Senior Member
- Location
- Vancouver, WA
Re: residentural electrical
Can a contractor who pulls a permit hire a subcontractor or use an employee? The AHJ will hold the permit puller responsible regardless of who performs the installation.
Can a contractor who pulls a permit hire a subcontractor or use an employee? The AHJ will hold the permit puller responsible regardless of who performs the installation.
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: residentural electrical
In my city, the homeowner must do all of the work himself (no helpers) or higher a licensed electrician.
In my city, the homeowner must do all of the work himself (no helpers) or higher a licensed electrician.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
Re: residentural electrical
The permit makes you responsible for the job. If you have help on the job and you pay them they are temp. employees. Which means that if they are hurt you may be responsible. If they make mistakes you are responsible. As far as I know there is nothing wrong with getting help but don't try to dodge the bullet by subbing out the work because the permit is in your name. Most homeowners should check out the local regulations before deciding to become general or electrical contractors on their own projects. The actual savings may not be what they expect ( if the project is large most people don't figure the amount of time it will take for amateurs to complete said project). I never try to talk people out of doing their own work but I do ask that they look at the project realistically before starting. Some people are capable of doing their own work and others are not. I can't do my own taxes because I don't want to study the new tax laws every year. I figure that it is cost effective for me to pay someone that knows what they are doing.
The permit makes you responsible for the job. If you have help on the job and you pay them they are temp. employees. Which means that if they are hurt you may be responsible. If they make mistakes you are responsible. As far as I know there is nothing wrong with getting help but don't try to dodge the bullet by subbing out the work because the permit is in your name. Most homeowners should check out the local regulations before deciding to become general or electrical contractors on their own projects. The actual savings may not be what they expect ( if the project is large most people don't figure the amount of time it will take for amateurs to complete said project). I never try to talk people out of doing their own work but I do ask that they look at the project realistically before starting. Some people are capable of doing their own work and others are not. I can't do my own taxes because I don't want to study the new tax laws every year. I figure that it is cost effective for me to pay someone that knows what they are doing.
al hildenbrand
Senior Member
- Location
- Minnesota
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Re: residentural electrical
Erikuplegger,
The way you've worded your question leaves a couple meanings.
Are you are asking if the permit that you, as the homeowner, take out entitles you to work with the Electrical Contractor who you hired?
If so, the answer is up to the Contractor.
My experience in working side by side with most homeowners is that I have to add time for education and supervision. The simple business of the matter is, I, as the Contractor, have to be willing to do the extra communication and have to be paid for it.
Erikuplegger,
The way you've worded your question leaves a couple meanings.
Are you are asking if the permit that you, as the homeowner, take out entitles you to work with the Electrical Contractor who you hired?
If so, the answer is up to the Contractor.
My experience in working side by side with most homeowners is that I have to add time for education and supervision. The simple business of the matter is, I, as the Contractor, have to be willing to do the extra communication and have to be paid for it.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: residentural electrical
My answer would be, "Yes. But it might not save you money in the long run if you attempt to play a role in the project. Also, there is a higher chance that something might not get done correctly, since you would be in charge of the project, and your contractor(s) can only do what you tell them to (and pay them for)."
My answer would be, "Yes. But it might not save you money in the long run if you attempt to play a role in the project. Also, there is a higher chance that something might not get done correctly, since you would be in charge of the project, and your contractor(s) can only do what you tell them to (and pay them for)."
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: residentural electrical
In my area only licenced electrical CONTRACTORS are alowed to perform work to any dwelling, or other structure. Sadly, the fact is this law is routinely violated. It gets old finding flying spliced romex in the ceiling of high rise buildings, when I am called in to do a simple add on. Now I have to contact the hiring person and explain that I need to gut out all the hack work done by others. Allways at more cost to the customer, before I will perform the job they asked me to. Lots of time they act like I am trying to gouge them, and I end up walking. I loose time and travel money on this stuff mostly.
In my area only licenced electrical CONTRACTORS are alowed to perform work to any dwelling, or other structure. Sadly, the fact is this law is routinely violated. It gets old finding flying spliced romex in the ceiling of high rise buildings, when I am called in to do a simple add on. Now I have to contact the hiring person and explain that I need to gut out all the hack work done by others. Allways at more cost to the customer, before I will perform the job they asked me to. Lots of time they act like I am trying to gouge them, and I end up walking. I loose time and travel money on this stuff mostly.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: residentural electrical
Originally posted by peter d:
residentural?
B
bthielen
Guest
Re: residentural electrical
Here in Minnesota it is legal to obtain a permit and perform electrical work on one's principal residence. I am not allowed to perform electrical work on all property I own, only my principal residence.
What I am hearing from erikuplegger's request is if I as the homeowner obtain a permit to do my own work, can I hire or obtain help from a neighbor that may or may not have electrical experience, even though they are not a licensed electrician.
In Minnesota, the answer is no. The homeowner is the only person legally able to do the work on his/her premises without an electrical license. All other work must be done by a qualified electrician.
I have some limited experience simply because I did rewire my own home. Many of my neighbors now request that I help them do work on their homes because they don't know what they need to do. I am not a licensed electrician therefore it is not legal for me to help or do the work for them.
Bob
Here in Minnesota it is legal to obtain a permit and perform electrical work on one's principal residence. I am not allowed to perform electrical work on all property I own, only my principal residence.
What I am hearing from erikuplegger's request is if I as the homeowner obtain a permit to do my own work, can I hire or obtain help from a neighbor that may or may not have electrical experience, even though they are not a licensed electrician.
In Minnesota, the answer is no. The homeowner is the only person legally able to do the work on his/her premises without an electrical license. All other work must be done by a qualified electrician.
I have some limited experience simply because I did rewire my own home. Many of my neighbors now request that I help them do work on their homes because they don't know what they need to do. I am not a licensed electrician therefore it is not legal for me to help or do the work for them.
Bob
- Location
- Mission Viejo, CA
- Occupation
- Professional Electrical Engineer
Re: residentural electrical
No matter how the local laws read, it is difficult legally to prevent a residential property owner from making unpermitted improvements on their principal residence. Such property rights are well-documented in Common case law. (Of course with the recent Supreme Court decision on eminent domain that could change ? who knows?)
This is not to say there are no enforcement tools at all, of course. The primary legal one is denial of transfer of ownership until all applicable codes are met. This is based on the principle that a property owner is ALWAYS responsible for the safety of others on his or her property. It is disposal of property before or after the fact to avoid this responsibility is that is illegal. This principle is also why ?poachers guns? are illegal and thieves and burglars have occasionally successfully sued property owners for injuries.
A property owner may seek indemnification through insurance or other contracted (read licensed contractor) means. This is the second major way of enforcement. Buried somewhere in the text of most insurance policies, will be a disclaimer that damages resulting from non-compliant property modifications are not covered. However, if the damages resulted from non-compliant modifications made by a licensed contractor, the insurance company will generally cover them and seek to recover from the contractor, if possible.
The last means is also indirect. A jurisdiction may still attempt to enforce what is technically unenforceable and the property owner may simply decide it isn?t worth the cost of fighting it. This is the most common enforcement method ? and it is legal until a property owner successfully challenges it within a given jurisdiction. At that point, the jurisdiction must abandon that particular form of enforcement or rewrite its statutes.
Disclaimer: This is not a legal opinion, of course; just my observation of many and varied successful actions of both enforcement and challenges over the years.
No matter how the local laws read, it is difficult legally to prevent a residential property owner from making unpermitted improvements on their principal residence. Such property rights are well-documented in Common case law. (Of course with the recent Supreme Court decision on eminent domain that could change ? who knows?)
This is not to say there are no enforcement tools at all, of course. The primary legal one is denial of transfer of ownership until all applicable codes are met. This is based on the principle that a property owner is ALWAYS responsible for the safety of others on his or her property. It is disposal of property before or after the fact to avoid this responsibility is that is illegal. This principle is also why ?poachers guns? are illegal and thieves and burglars have occasionally successfully sued property owners for injuries.
A property owner may seek indemnification through insurance or other contracted (read licensed contractor) means. This is the second major way of enforcement. Buried somewhere in the text of most insurance policies, will be a disclaimer that damages resulting from non-compliant property modifications are not covered. However, if the damages resulted from non-compliant modifications made by a licensed contractor, the insurance company will generally cover them and seek to recover from the contractor, if possible.
The last means is also indirect. A jurisdiction may still attempt to enforce what is technically unenforceable and the property owner may simply decide it isn?t worth the cost of fighting it. This is the most common enforcement method ? and it is legal until a property owner successfully challenges it within a given jurisdiction. At that point, the jurisdiction must abandon that particular form of enforcement or rewrite its statutes.
Disclaimer: This is not a legal opinion, of course; just my observation of many and varied successful actions of both enforcement and challenges over the years.
james wuebker
Senior Member
- Location
- Iowa
Re: residentural electrical
Question was:
(can a home owner have help with istalling electrical if the permit is in his name.
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The way you wrote the question would be Yes. Alot of places wouldn't give you a permit to do the wiring unless your a license electrician. If you hire a friend that said to you he knows some about wiring then it could get done correct or it minght not. Do you want to take that change? Now if you get the permit and hire an electrician I don't see a problem
Question was:
(can a home owner have help with istalling electrical if the permit is in his name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The way you wrote the question would be Yes. Alot of places wouldn't give you a permit to do the wiring unless your a license electrician. If you hire a friend that said to you he knows some about wiring then it could get done correct or it minght not. Do you want to take that change? Now if you get the permit and hire an electrician I don't see a problem
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