Restaurant/Bar pricing

[guitarchris]

I have been asked to give some preliminary figures for a restaurant/Bar, so that they can get a loan. They gave me some basic "prints" if you want to call them that. They show the layout but give no electrical details. For reference it's similar to a Mellow Mushroom or Brixx's Pizza. I have some details on a few pieces of kitchen equipment everything else is guess work off what I can see on the print:
-Under counter freezer 7.9A 110V
-Microwave 13.2 110V
-Under counter ref. 7.1A 110V
-Food warmer 10A 110V
-Dishwasher 47A 208V
-Foodwarmer 24A 208V
-(2) Bar coolers 110V
-Walk In freezer
-Walk In Refrigerator
-ice maker
-Disposals? x4
-Deep fat fryers gas, do they requrire 110V?
-Gas Broiler
-Hood
-Iced tea maker
-Coffee Maker
-Water cooler
-Ice chest


-2 bathrooms, woman's= 2 stalls men's=stall and urinal
probably a fan and vanity light
-Game area with 7 machines

Things I totally guessed at:
-65 pendant hanging lights
-50 general use recs
-outdoor sign on building
-10 wall packs on exterior
-50 2x4 lay in fluorescents

and obviously it would need HVAC and the service figured in. Assume an empty building, just a shell.
We do mostly residential but am looking at this as a favor to one of our contractors. This is just for "budget" calculation for getting the loan, or so I am told.
I'm I the only one that get's this type of half cocked requests with none of the real information I need being given.
Ballpark figures and "I did one similar and ran into..., it cost..." welcome!!!

 

[dmagyar]

Yes, common practice

Yes, common practice

It will be very difficult for you to arrive anything close to a final number that these folks can use for getting a loan. Maybe it's for arranging some other type of fianancing.
In any case as an example I'm doing some repairs on a small existing restaurant thats just changed owners. They've got one large 42 ckt. 3phase panel full and another 30 ckt panel with 4 spaces. Restaurants take a lot of power. Everything in there uses power, less time equalls more wattage and in a restaurant everything needs to be fast. Even though this place was being used as a restaurant, there isn't enough space for new circuits, and even the existing service is max'd out. With a new place it's a blank sheet.

Try to find out what type service capacity they have? if any.

Do the calc's, try to get some better information, it will be good exercise but don't too attached to the job, it may not materialize. Good Luck.

 

[AV ELECTRIC]

Its not a binding quote so price it over the top you don't want to cut it close usually when you get the loan that's all they will get and you want to have enough to finish the project. if you are designing this set up don't forget to be paid your time . there's no guarantee that they will use you or get the loan.

 

[guitarchris]

Yeah, I'm not wasting a ton of time figuring it knowing a)It might not pan out, you know home some of these "look at this as a favor" type thing tend to be b)I might not want to do such a large job. We are very small, Me my semi retired father and a helper,company. We would have to hire on some temp help to do the job with any amount of quickness.
I came up with a quick and dirty number of around $17k and was going to tell them they should count on it being around $25-30K. I have no idea if that's even in the ballpark, at all. I came up with that number by basicly guessing at what would be there and putting a number on each item. Things like a service that large and walk in freezer would be new to me, so I have no clue how much they would cost, without getting supply house quotes etc.

 

[Volta]

Yeah, I'm not wasting a ton of time figuring it knowing a)It might not pan out, you know home some of these "look at this as a favor" type thing tend to be b)I might not want to do such a large job. We are very small, Me my semi retired father and a helper,company. We would have to hire on some temp help to do the job with any amount of quickness.
I came up with a quick and dirty number of around $17k and was going to tell them they should count on it being around $25-30K. I have no idea if that's even in the ballpark, at all. I came up with that number by basicly guessing at what would be there and putting a number on each item. Things like a service that large and walk in freezer would be new to me, so I have no clue how much they would cost, without getting supply house quotes etc.

Lighting and the unknowns will add up fast. I wouldn't give them a budget number under your 30k. Lighting fixtures furnished by customer for that cost.

 

[Volta]

The fryers won't need AC power, as far as I've seen, but there will be power under the hood to be run through a contactor set-up.

 

[G0049]

Is your number supposed to include all the LV stuff? With waitress stations, kitchen and bar displays, cashier stations, credit card machines and a WIFI hookup, the place will be laced with cables. And don't forget sound system and TVs.

It adds up quickly.

 

[sparky=t]

The fryers won't need AC power, as far as I've seen, but there will be power under the hood to be run through a contactor set-up.

might want to figure the gas valve!

 

[Volta]

might want to figure the gas valve!

Good point, but furnished and installed by others, so doesn't change the ballpark pricing.

 

[satcom]

I have been asked to give some preliminary figures for a restaurant/Bar, so that they can get a loan. They gave me some basic "prints" if you want to call them that. They show the layout but give no electrical details. For reference it's similar to a Mellow Mushroom or Brixx's Pizza. I have some details on a few pieces of kitchen equipment everything else is guess work

With no electrical details, let them know you would be glad to work up a preliminary figure, if he is willing to pay the cost of working it up at whatevery your burdened hourley cost is, but if they supplied you with a detailed electrical prints, there would be no charge for the estimate. . . .

 

[rich000]

With no electrical details, let them know you would be glad to work up a preliminary figure, if he is willing to pay the cost of working it up at whatevery your burdened hourley cost is, but if they supplied you with a detailed electrical prints, there would be no charge for the estimate. . . .

YES! Otherwise they will take your work and bid it out. At least if you get paid something up front, it is not a loss. I have done this as "electrical consultation".

 

[guitarchris]

had a friend at a larger company give me a rough idea of how they give, off the cuff numbers like this. He said they give a sf price then do a real take off once someone gives them some plans. They go somewhere between $14.75-18/sf. that's a lot more than what I came up with, which means I much be way freak'n off, lol. The building is around 4000sq ft

 

[guitarchris]

YES! Otherwise they will take your work and bid it out. At least if you get paid something up front, it is not a loss. I have done this as "electrical consultation".

And That's why I'm not wanting to spend much time on this. I told the contractor, who's favor this is for, that we should error on the high side.

 

[tyha]

Im glad you are beginning to figure this out because I beleive you are in our area and the 17K would be just about labor only for any type of restaraunt inside of a shell.