Restaurants and GFCI?

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mopowr steve

mopowr steve

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NW Ohio
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Electrical contractor
Ok, so under 2017 NEC I am under the impression that a 250v 30amp L6-30 twistlock receptacle now requires GFCI protection because the line wires are 120volt to ground or am I reading to much into it?
 
I don't believe you need a neutral in order for the receptacle to require a gfci. For example, a straight 240 v receptacle needs gfci protection also. To be clear to others this is for non-dwelling
 
I just thought of something else, I thought I read here once about GFCI breakers on a 120/208 3 phase system where esp. 2 pole have an issue with the 2 phases not being 180 degrees apart.
Any one here have any good info on this?
Im looking at an Easton/Cuttler hammer panelboard if that matters.
 
I would assume that there are GFCI breakers rated for 208V as well as 240. They can't expect to have a rule if the manufacturer doesn't make the device
 
mopowr steve said:
I just thought of something else, I thought I read here once about GFCI breakers on a 120/208 3 phase system where esp. 2 pole have an issue with the 2 phases not being 180 degrees apart.
Any one here have any good info on this?
Im looking at an Easton/Cuttler hammer panelboard if that matters.
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I don't think that should be a problem. Assuming the loads are Line to Line, the current should be equal and the same on both phase conductors, and there shouldn't be any neutral or ground current.
 
mopowr steve said:
I just thought of something else, I thought I read here once about GFCI breakers on a 120/208 3 phase system where esp. 2 pole have an issue with the 2 phases not being 180 degrees apart.
Any one here have any good info on this?
Im looking at an Easton/Cuttler hammer panelboard if that matters.
Click to expand...
For GFCI's net current through sensing current transformer is still zero if all circuit conductors pass through it even on 120/208 multiwire circuits.

What you probably read was that 2 pole AFCI's won't work on a 208 system because of the phase angle - which is a real issue.
 
mopowr steve said:
Ok, so under 2017 NEC I am under the impression that a 250v 30amp L6-30 twistlock receptacle now requires GFCI protection because the line wires are 120volt to ground or am I reading to much into it?
Click to expand...
Don't have my 2017 handy, but unless the kitchen (I assume you are getting at) is outdoors or otherwise considered a wet location - only the 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles require GFCI protection.
 
kwired said:
Don't have my 2017 handy, but unless the kitchen (I assume you are getting at) is outdoors or otherwise considered a wet location - only the 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles require GFCI protection.
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No, commercial kitchen.
 
mopowr steve said:
No, commercial kitchen.
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I meant the kitchen in the restaurant - so commercial kitchen it is;)

I don't think there is a general requirement for GFCI on anything but the 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles in there - but what you questioned may require GFCI if in a wet location, outdoors or in an unfinished basement - again I don't have my 2017 handy to look at.
 
Don't have my 2017 handy either since we are on 2014, but I think we talked about this before. Everything including 50A (120v to ground) receptacles need to be GFI'd. Problem is nobody makes a 50A GFCI breaker.

-Hal
 
kwired said:
I meant the kitchen in the restaurant - so commercial kitchen it is;)

I don't think there is a general requirement for GFCI on anything but the 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles in there - but what you questioned may require GFCI if in a wet location, outdoors or in an unfinished basement - again I don't have my 2017 handy to look at.
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Better get that new code book out. 210.8(B) has some big changes. It's all gfci all the time in 2017. Well not exactly all the time, but a whole lot more of the time.
 
hbiss said:
Don't have my 2017 handy either since we are on 2014, but I think we talked about this before. Everything including 50A (120v to ground) receptacles need to be GFI'd. Problem is nobody makes a 50A GFCI breaker.

-Hal
Click to expand...

What do you mean, no 50A gfi breaker? What about hot tub disconnects.
maybe your talking about a single pole 50?
 
kwired said:
What you probably read was that 2 pole AFCI's won't work on a 208 system because of the phase angle - which is a real issue.
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That must be it, Thank you.

The more I thought about it I guess the panelboard wouldn't list the model prefix code for a GFCI breaker if it couldn't be used.
 
ActionDave said:
Better get that new code book out. 210.8(B) has some big changes. It's all gfci all the time in 2017. Well not exactly all the time, but a whole lot more of the time.
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I still recall majority of what changed that is not 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles involves being outdoors, indoor wet locations, and unfinished basement areas.

My 2017 is out in the truck and I don't have any 2017 on my computer yet. I imagine there still is one you can view on NFPA site - after you give them information so they can bombard you with mail, email, etc, though I am already on their lists, such activity may increase the volume for a bit again.:huh:
 
kwired said:
I still recall majority of what changed that is not 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles involves being outdoors, indoor wet locations, and unfinished basement areas.

My 2017 is out in the truck and I don't have any 2017 on my computer yet. I imagine there still is one you can view on NFPA site - after you give them information so they can bombard you with mail, email, etc, though I am already on their lists, such activity may increase the volume for a bit again.:huh:
Click to expand...

"210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All single-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less and three phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 100 amperes or less installed in the following locations shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel."

In addition there have been some changes to the list items in 210.8(B).
 
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