Retail stripmall with 480V?? Where do TIs put their XFormers?

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

donw

Senior Member
Location
Arizona
First strip mall I've seen with 480V. Each tenant has a feeder conduit stubbed into its space back to a 200A class T fuse at the service. This tenant is a very tiny retail shop. Do you usually have a 480V panel for the air conditioning and feeding a transformer, feeding a 120/208V panel for the recepts, etc? Do you put the transformer in the ceiling space? For the life me, I can't see why the shell building designer went with 480V - it required a new transformer, so he could have chosen 208V. Heck, there isn't even a 480V house panel - just a transformed 208V house panel.
 
Strip Mall

Strip Mall

Actually see this quite often.
Generally, the only things in the 480 volt panel are the ACs and the transformer feed.
The transformers are either hung from the bar joists or they sit on the floor or they may be mounted on a platform above the restroom.
It does seem like a lot of hassle and expense to provide 480 to a 1000 sqaure foot space.
Perhaps it has something to do with the POCO supply.
 
I see it in larger strip malls, regardless of the individual tenant sizes. Voltage drop often becomes a problem when distributing longer distances. I regularly put smaller xfmrs in ceiling spaces.

Jim T
 
I recently did a T/I design for a new shell retail building....the shell building was less than 8,000SF and there was a 2,000A 277/480V service for 5 tenant spaces. It was designed by an out of town engineer for an out of town developer....which is probably why the EC did not "VE" the project. I was shocked to see a service that big and that voltage for such a small building.
 
Dave_PE said:
I was shocked to see a service that big and that voltage for such a small building.
Click to expand...
I'm equally surprised that the PoCo just didn't say, "Yeah, nice try guys", and kick it right back for a more reasonable request. Particularly when it was a shell, with no real intended use yet.
 
mdshunk said:
I'm equally surprised that the PoCo just didn't say, "Yeah, nice try guys", and kick it right back for a more reasonable request. Particularly when it was a shell, with no real intended use yet.
Click to expand...

Around here, the Poco will require calculations to justify your service request, and sometimes they will flat out tell you what you can and can't have. Although isn't this the case everywhere???? I would hope so.
 
Service

Service

Here, you build as big a service as you want...they will install transformers and POCO cables to fit the LOAD, not the service.

We have several strips with 480/277 480 HVAC, 277 lighting
small transformers for 120 volt loads. On two occassions where space was
a consideration the transformers were mounted outside.
 
peter d said:
Around here, the Poco will require calculations to justify your service request, and sometimes they will flat out tell you what you can and can't have. Although isn't this the case everywhere???? I would hope so.
Click to expand...

Heck, since i've had to start dealing with National Grid, i have to justify a 200 amp service over a 100 amp one for residential! (No Lie!) And when i get that 200 amp, its off such a small x-former that lights are always dimming and the x-former is crazy hot and obnoxiously buzzing
 
Well, I called the design engineer, and it turns out that the developer requested 480V. The designer told him that that was a little unusual in these retail shops, but he wanted it any way...and the customer is always right:smile:
 
jamesguy10 said:
Heck, since i've had to start dealing with National Grid, i have to justify a 200 amp service over a 100 amp one for residential! (No Lie!) And when i get that 200 amp, its off such a small x-former that lights are always dimming and the x-former is crazy hot and obnoxiously buzzing
Click to expand...

Wow..that's weird. I wonder why they would question that? Maybe they don't want to upgrade their transformers? A 200 amp service is considered the norm for most residential new homes, but 100 amps is still very common in most existing and some new homes. Either way, the poco will size their conductors and transformers based on their historical data.
 
peter d said:
Wow..that's weird. I wonder why they would question that? Maybe they don't want to upgrade their transformers? A 200 amp service is considered the norm for most residential new homes, but 100 amps is still very common in most existing and some new homes. Either way, the poco will size their conductors and transformers based on their historical data.
Click to expand...

As one would think. Its not that they dont want to, its that they WONT(unless you get everyone affected to riot)(which ive only tried once in my own nieghborhood and it worked)(they swapped out an xformer at about 9:00 at night, after they sent an "official" to everyones front door)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top