romex and smoke detectors in a church

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

kbrandt

Member
Location
arizona
I have 2 questions, hope someone can help.

A church is adding a youth center, which I am wiring. They are leaving the ceiling rafters open (no drywall) and painting it black. I am putting recessed cans up and they will get painted. Can I run romex along the rafter or does it need to be protected? Is there such a rule that says over 8' feet it does not? The rafters are 10' high.

Also, do the smoke detectors (2) in a church have to be on a separate circuit or can I come off lights or recep. power. Room is 60' by 28'. Also do they need to be interconnected, so if one goes off so does the other.

Thanks for any info.
 
Last edited:
just found out it is rated for 93 people. Has fire blocking 8' up walls, and 5/8 sheetrock. Wood framing.

Can I use nm. Looked at 518 kinda of confussing.
 
kbrandt said:
just found out it is rated for 93 people. Has fire blocking 8' up walls, and 5/8 sheetrock. Wood framing.

Can I use nm. Looked at 518 kinda of confussing.
Click to expand...

I read a big negative in the article referenced...
(A) General. The fixed wlflng methods shall be metal
raceways, flexible metal raceways, nonmetallic raceways
encased in not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete, Type
MI, MC, or AC cable.
 
kbrandt said:
I have 2 questions, hope someone can help.

A church is adding a youth center, which I am wiring. They are leaving the ceiling rafters open (no drywall) and painting it black. I am putting recessed cans up and they will get painted. Can I run romex along the rafter or does it need to be protected? Is there such a rule that says over 8' feet it does not? The rafters are 10' high.

Also, do the smoke detectors (2) in a church have to be on a separate circuit or can I come off lights or recep. power. Room is 60' by 28'. Also do they need to be interconnected, so if one goes off so does the other.

Thanks for any info.
Click to expand...

The only thing that I see that might even be remotely applicable to your use of NM is 518.4(B). That would depend on the construction rating. Are the rafters wood or metal?
I would say you would need to contact the building codes dept. for an answer to this and maybe the AHJ. Same for your smokes question.

Edit: I just reread one of your post and you said it was wood frame. I take that to mean the rafters too. So I would say no to the NM. Why would you want a yellow or white sheath contrasting off a black ceiling anyway? Maybe the youth would think that was "kool"!:D
 
Last edited:
Hv&Lv said:
I read a big negative in the article referenced...
(A) General. The fixed wlflng methods shall be metal
raceways, flexible metal raceways, nonmetallic raceways
encased in not less than 50 mm (2 in.) of concrete, Type
MI, MC, or AC cable.
Click to expand...

Negative IF 518 applies. 518.1 says 100 persons or more. Last time I checked 93 was less than 100.

I may just want to follow 518 anyway, but if occupancy is less than 100 I certainly wouldn't need to.
 
jumper said:
So, you are saying the NEC trumps the IBC. AFAICT most jurisdictions adopt the IRC and IBC, with amendments.
Click to expand...

Guess I don't know. Seldom run into building code issues here because there really isn't any. Larger cities in the area there is but I have enough to do that I don't need to work in those places. State Fire Marshal does have requirements for commercial and public use buildings but it does not always seem consistant and am not sure what references they use for any of their requirements. They almost never have anything that is a direct issue with electricians and let the electrical inspectors deal with anything electrical. All the electrical inspectors enforce is NEC. Egress lighting and exit signs is just about all I ever need to talk to Fire Marshal about, and mostly all he cares about is location and functionality, not whether it complies with NEC - that is the electrical inspectors job to check that.
 
At least here in NJ the NEC does not trump the IRC or IBC but each code is applied for the sections involved according to their definitions. So a structure may be considered an A use group for the IBC and not a Place of Assembly for the NEC.
 
RICK NAPIER said:
At least here in NJ the NEC does not trump the IRC or IBC but each code is applied for the sections involved according to their definitions. So a structure may be considered an A use group for the IBC and not a Place of Assembly for the NEC.
Click to expand...

That is just it, does the electrical inspector recognize that it is a place of assembly if only called that outside of the standard he is using, like NEC? Or on the other side does the building inspector care anything about the electrical system as long as he doesn't see things like bored holes that will substantially weaken a framing member or things of that nature?

The two codes are addressing different issues. Building code will be addressing things like fire rating of walls and egress requirements. Electrical code mostly only requires specific wiring methods in 518 because of smoke producing characteristics of products that are prohibited by 518.

But we are allowed to use NM cables in our homes where we sleep at night - just had to throw that old saying in.
 
RICK NAPIER said:
At least here in NJ the NEC does not trump the IRC or IBC but each code is applied for the sections involved according to their definitions. So a structure may be considered an A use group for the IBC and not a Place of Assembly for the NEC.
Click to expand...

I can live with that, I was basing my assumptions on this:

102.4 Referenced codes and standards. The codes and standards referenced in this code shall be considered part of the requirements of this code to the prescribed extent of each such reference. Where differences occur between provisions of this code and referenced codes and standards, the provisions of this code shall apply.
 
Before I got to hung up on 93 people I would probably take my own measurements. It always amazes me at how many restruants have an occupancy of 49 and how many churches have an occupancy of 99.
 
kwired said:
Have you ever seen 101?:D
Click to expand...

Exactly. I'll bet they won't turn anyone away if they somehow get to the 99th person. These plans may have come from flim-flam design-build company.

Personally, I wouldn't run exposed romex anywhere within a building where jr. high students will be allowed free reign.
 
The NEC does not trump the IBC it is just that the IBC definition of an assembly use group applies to IBC requirements and the NEC definition of place of assembly applies to NEC requirements. They are two different codess from two distinct organizations covering different issues.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top