romex exposed

[kbrandt]

I've been reading art. 334 for an hour and can't tell if romex exposed is allowed or not.I've read all the old forums on this subject.I've ran into romex under porches (on service changes) and always put it in conduit,or can I take it right back into the panel? Also I have a job coming up to wire a landscape shop and the owners wants romex in holes though wood studs to save cost (no sheetrock or wood to cover romex).I told him I didn't think it was legal and I would not do the work if it is wrong, should it be ran in conduit,or am I wrong? He's a good customer of mine, but it has to be right. I know about the physical damage, but most of the run is about 10 feet high and inside and old building with outside walls only and wood studs exposed inside.
Any feedback would be great.Thanks in advance.

 

[raider1]

I've been reading art. 334 for an hour and can't tell if romex exposed is allowed or not.

Romex is allowed to be run exposed in accordance with 334.15.

I've ran into romex under porches (on service changes) and always put it in conduit,

Romex can't be installed in damp or wet locations, even if they are in conduit.(See 334.10(A)(1))

(The inside of a conduit in a wet location is considered to also be a wet location, See 225.22)

Also I have a job coming up to wire a landscape shop and the owners wants romex in holes though wood studs to save cost (no sheetrock or wood to cover romex).I told him I didn't think it was legal and I would not do the work if it is wrong, should it be ran in conduit,or am I wrong?

Romex is allowed to be installed in commercial applications in accordance with 334.10(3), but only if the cable is concealed within walls, floors, or ceilings that provide a thermal barrier of material that has a least a 15-minute finish rating as identifed in listings of fire-rated assemblies.

Chris

 

[busman]

Actually, it says:

"shall be permitted in normally dry locations"

and

"shall NOT be used where exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampness"

No mention of damp or wet locations.

Mark

 

[celtic]

What type conductors/insulation are in Romex?

 

[raider1]

Actually, it says:

"shall be permitted in normally dry locations"

and

"shall NOT be used where exposed or subject to excessive moisture or dampness"

No mention of damp or wet locations.

Mark

Isn't an area that is subject to excessive moisture, a wet location?

Isn't an area that is subject to dampness, a damp location?

What type conductors/insulation are in Romex?

334.112 doesn't require that the conductors installed within the NM cable to be a wet location type of conductor, just that it be one of the types listed in Table 310.13 and the insulation rating be rated a 90 degrees C.

I believe that they are THHN but don't know if the conductors are also listed as THWN-2.

Chris

 

[dab]

romex

romex

the ahj in my local doesn't allow romex to be exposed below 8 ft.

 

[celtic]

Isn't an area that is subject to excessive moisture, a wet location?

Isn't an area that is subject to dampness, a damp location?

Article 100 tells us:

Location, Damp.
Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.

Location, Dry.
A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction.

Location, Wet.
Installations under ground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.

The commentray following these definitions states:

It is intended that the inside of a raceway in a wet location or a raceway installed under ground be considered a wet location. Therefore, any conductors contained therein would be required to be suitable for wet locations.

**

I believe that they are THHN but don't know if the conductors are also listed as THWN-2.

Chris

Someday when you a moment to spare, strip back a foot or two.

 

[raider1]

Someday when you a moment to spare, strip back a foot or two.

I did, and there are no markings whatsoever on the individual conductors within the NM-B cable.

I guess I didn't do a very good job of getting my point across with my earlier post. I was thinking that the original poster was talking about installing NM cable under a wood deck (porch) that would be subject to either direct rain if not covered, or just a damp location if covered. I might not have understood the OP's comment about a "porch".

Again, my original point was that NM cable can't be installed in a damp or wet location in accordance with 334.12(B)(4). I know that it doesn't specifically say "Damp Location" and "Wet Location" but any area that is exposed to, or subject to, excessive moisture or dampness will either be a damp location or a wet location in accordance with the definitions of Article 100.

Sorry if there was any confusion.

Chris

 

[celtic]

Sorry if there was any confusion.

Chris

[confusion]
I think we were BOTH a little confused there....I see what you are saying and I agree with you.
[/confusion]

 

[raider1]

I think we were BOTH a little confused there....

Agreed, It doesn't take much to confuse me.

I guess that the reason I posted what I did is that I see a lot of NM cable run under wood decks in my area. I have written this violation up probably 6 times in the last 6 months.

Chris

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The fact that romex does not say what kind of insulated wires is within it automatically excludes it from being used outside. The jacket itself is, of course , another issue. Why don't the manufacturers just label the damn wire in the romex. They all say it is thhn, then they ought to put it on there and stop this confusion.

I hate being confused--- This is what confusion must be like

View attachment 432​

 

[celtic]

I hate being confused--- This is what confusion must be like

View attachment 432​

Maybe for the average person....but as I am above average, I get at least a triple dose.

 

[Sierrasparky]

In the past I have sleeved a portion of NM where it passes into a damp or condition that could be subject to damage.
Such as :
an exterior light on the side of a building. The point at which the wire exits the building and would be exposed to rain or weather i have sleeved it inside EMT. I have done several like this. The EMT is only 3' long and is bushed with an Arlignton EMT busing. The NM wire is nailed to the nearest joist in the crawl space. no farther than 8-10" .
Also we use the 2002 code here.

Am I doing it correctly?