Rotary UPS Systems

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Sunny_92

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York, PA
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I'm an engineer who is evaluating several medium-voltage UPS systems for a customer of ours. We are currently considering systems ranging from 1.2-2 MW at 13.2 kV manufactured by Hitec (rotary), Piller (rotary), and S&C (static). The unit from Hitec that we are considering is a rotary system coupled with a diesel generator. Piller's system is also rotary and can be coupled to a diesel generator either electrically or mechanically. The unit from S&C that we're considering is an offline static system that utilizes lead-acid batteries.

Does anyone have experience with any of these systems/manufacturers? I'd like to know how Hitec and Piller compare in terms of reliability and maintenance. I like the idea of a diesel-backed rotary system, but having something spinning 24/7 seems a whole lot less reliable than a static system.

Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks!
 
ATSman

ATSman

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ron

ron

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ATSman said:
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe CAT has a licensing agreement with Active Power who make the UPS (A salesman who worked there told me this.) This is the same type of agreement CAT made with GE-Zenith who they also brand name as their ATS units.
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Yes and this rotary is very different than the Hytec and Piller units the OP stated. The cat and Active power UPS's are line interactive static UPS's, but have a rotary "battery".
 
ron

ron

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Sunny_92 said:
I'm an engineer who is evaluating several medium-voltage UPS systems for a customer of ours. We are currently considering systems ranging from 1.2-2 MW at 13.2 kV manufactured by Hitec (rotary), Piller (rotary), and S&C (static). The unit from Hitec that we are considering is a rotary system coupled with a diesel generator. Piller's system is also rotary and can be coupled to a diesel generator either electrically or mechanically. The unit from S&C that we're considering is an offline static system that utilizes lead-acid batteries.

Does anyone have experience with any of these systems/manufacturers? I'd like to know how Hitec and Piller compare in terms of reliability and maintenance. I like the idea of a diesel-backed rotary system, but having something spinning 24/7 seems a whole lot less reliable than a static system.

Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks!
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I just happened to get a visit from the Hitec rep today. At 1.2-2MW (relatively small), you will likely have a significantly greater first cost than standard static UPS's. Long term TCO at 20 or 30 years is probably better for the rotary.

Is your intent to support the whole building load from UPS? What is driving you to these alternate approaches to the standard approach?
 
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Sunny_92

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Location
York, PA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer
mike7330 said:
Cat makes a unit that we quoted
http://www.cat.com/en_US/power-systems/electric-power-generation/ups-flywheel.html
The flywheel is in a vacuum
Call them and see what they tell you,
Sorry all I can tell you
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Thanks for the suggestion.
ron said:
I just happened to get a visit from the Hitec rep today. At 1.2-2MW (relatively small), you will likely have a significantly greater first cost than standard static UPS's. Long term TCO at 20 or 30 years is probably better for the rotary.

Is your intent to support the whole building load from UPS? What is driving you to these alternate approaches to the standard approach?
Click to expand...

No, we will only be supporting one portion of a large industrial facility. We will be backing up one piece of switchgear (main-tie-main) that feeds a bunch of automated equipment. The site has backup generation, but the automated equipment has to be completely reset after the brief outage while the generators start. Also, one of the parallel generators currently supporting the switchgear is fairly unreliable, which one reason we're looking at diesel coupled rotary systems. The site has 13.2 kV distribution, and due to the configuration of the electric room we're not considering a UPS on the 480 V side.

So far, my numbers are showing the rotary system coming in at a lower 20 year TCO versus the static system, but not by much. It seems to me that a rotary system would be more prone to failure though, so I'm not sure if the seemingly lower TCO is worth the risk. Then again, with a static system we're stuck with possibility of the existing generator not starting.
 
mayanees

mayanees

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CCG

CCG

I suggest that you talk to CCG Facilities Integration. They are, in my opinion, the foremost rotary UPS engineering firm anywhere. They have a patented Isolated Parallel system that connects rotaries, thereby allowing shared load throughout an interconnected system. The VP use to say that the biggest hurdle to selling a rotary system is convincing the client that ten seconds is enough time to get the backup generation online. One of the big advantages is not needing battery storage rooms.
They're located in Baltimore, MD.
 
ron

ron

Senior Member
Location
New York, 40.7514,-73.9925
mayanees said:
I suggest that you talk to CCG Facilities Integration. They are, in my opinion, the foremost rotary UPS engineering firm anywhere. They have a patented Isolated Parallel system that connects rotaries, thereby allowing shared load throughout an interconnected system. The VP use to say that the biggest hurdle to selling a rotary system is convincing the client that ten seconds is enough time to get the backup generation online. One of the big advantages is not needing battery storage rooms.
They're located in Baltimore, MD.
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The IP bus solution is for large systems requiring many units to make it worth while. Here is a cool video for fun http://www.piller.com/en-GB/videos/518/piller-isolated-parallel-ups-system

The OP is only doing a single 2MW unit.
 
mayanees

mayanees

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Location
Westminster, MD
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windhorn

New User
Location
N. Mankato, MN USA
Sunny_92 said:
Thanks for the suggestion.

... So far, my numbers are showing the rotary system coming in at a lower 20 year TCO versus the static system, but not by much. It seems to me that a rotary system would be more prone to failure though, so I'm not sure if the seemingly lower TCO is worth the risk. Then again, with a static system we're stuck with possibility of the existing generator not starting.
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Our feeling is that the rotary UPS will be more reliable, if properly maintained. Depending on the design, there are no sensitive semiconductors exposed to the big bad grid, nor to the load. Just copper and steel (and some insulation). Anyway you probably won't be able to get replacement parts for your static system after 10-15 years.

Allen
 
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Ingenieur

Senior Member
Location
Earth
Without the full picture hard to say
process type
batch like beer or pharma
continuous like printing or glass making
data
discrete like stamping
etc

what are the consequences of failure?

alternatives
redundent seperately sourced utility feed synched or switched statically
UPS only for the control system, carry over or orderly shutdown/restart

I'm no expert in this field but have seen alot of systems designed by experts for critical apps
usually
battery ups
static transfer
n+1 genset

the likelyhood of failure is the same for the genset or mechanical ups prime mover
Imo the key is maintenace and verifying operational prepardness, ie, excercise & test the system
 
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