Rules for Puck lights

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gregory

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Below are some rules for puck light installations. Please feel free to add your own comments or rules

SUBJECT: Puck Light Installation


 120 Volt Puck lights are not permitted for permanent installations unless they are wired with conduit & boxes

 120 volt puck lights are not permitted to be spliced or installed under permanently installed cabinets.

 Low voltage (12 volt) puck light wiring must not be concealed; it must be in a raceway in the walls and ceiling: boxes are required above lights when wiring & lights are concealed

 Puck lights installed with the wiring open or visible. Must use a class II transformer rated at not more than 100 VA

 Transformers with a VA rating of 101 to 1000 VA are class I. Class I wiring is required to be in conduit & Boxes. The secondary circuit must be protected not to exceed 25 amps.

 Transformers or power supplies with the backward RU marking of UL laboratories are not UL approved to be used as a separate component. This is intended to be a factory installed component.

 Outside direct burial low voltage wiring is not approved for use inside of the building

 Attention should be given to the ampacity of the wire selected. A 300 watt 12 volt transformer will produce 25 amperes of current.

 Many Puck light assemblies are only approved for portable use. They must be approved for permanent use under cabinets

 Transformers may not be hidden in soffets & walls
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Most of your "rules" are outside my area of expertise. I'll not comment on them.

But I recall a long debate about your first rule. I don't agree with it. But I'll not open up the debate again. If I do see the same debate starting up, I will post a link to the old debate and close the thread.

The second rule seems to contradict the first. If the first rule allows me to install a puck light in a permanent fashion by using a box and conduit, then why does the second rule say I can't mount a puck light under a permanent cabinet?
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

First rule about puck lights, don't talk about puck lights. :D
As for your list, as Peter asked where did these rules come from?

[ November 02, 2005, 06:03 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Puck lights have been installed over and over for years.I have yet to see one that requires conduit.Thye new type have a really sweet cord connect from the puck lights to the trans,
Wehave been mounting a horrizontial receptacle above cabinets and fishing the puck light lead throught the space between the cabinets and pluging them in with factory installed plugs,No field modifications so no ul issue.No illegal wire within walls so not an NEC issue.Does anyone see this a a peoblem ???
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Cords in general are not permitted to be concealed by construction or any other means.

If your lighting system is listed, and the listing specifically states that the cord can be installed behind or through the cabinet, I see no problem. Your best bet is to call the manufacturer's tech line and ask them.
I once called a tech, and they stated I should take a closer look at the instructions...I did and saw what he was telling me... that the surface wiring method between the fixtures was required to be in a raceway. I could not believe it, but he said it was extra safety build in by the manufacturer to protect their butts.
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

There is only one rule for puck lights that I follow:

Place puck light on hard, flat surface. Repeatedly hit with sledgehammer. Repeat as necessary.
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Peter this is install not to be confused with maime ,destroy or turn into metalic pancake :D
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Peteras a matter of fact I am kind of intrigued astu that method.But my warehouse man would hit me with them when I returned a puck light as thin as a penny ;)
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Gregory: Are you going to jump back into this and give us the basis or the reason for offering your "rules"? Or are you just going to let us entertain ourselves at their expense? :D :D
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Seems to me that Gregory is outlining some generic problems which arise when a customer asks for puck lights installed in certain applications. I think he is looking more for feedback from others. I think he possibly chose poor wording when he wrote "rules".

My guess is that he is probably frustrated when a customer wants pucks to magically appear in a location. They do not want to see exposed cables, junction boxes, transformers, or whatever. If this is the case, it might be a better topic for the contracting topic of the forum.

I guess that I'm making a lot of assumptions, though.
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Originally posted by j_erickson:
Seems I guess that I'm making a lot of assumptions, though.
Click to expand...
And we know what happens when you make assumptions. :D
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

I am trying to develop some rules for the installation of puck lights in the village where I work. I would appreciate any comments or helpful rules that you can think of that would be helpful. Article 411 of N.E.C. says that the wiring can't be concealed or installed in the walls.

Charlie you are right that the first two statements appear to be contradictary, I am saying in the first rule that you must wire 120 volt lights with a wiring system type of chapter 3. The second rule is meant to say that you can't splice or install 120 volts lights under the cabinets with open wiring. These lights are wired with lamp cord. Many electricians stub 3/8 flex out of the wall and the lamp cord is spliced under the cabinet.

Peter, I am trying to make these rules up to help the electricians properly install them. That is why I am asking for your help so that I get it right.

Hurk you say that only the last 3 rules are true, the code says that you can't use lamp cord for permanent wiring, also that open wiring must use a class II power supply. Class II is limited to 100 VA. anything over that is considered class I. class I must be chapter III wiring method. pipe & wire or romex or nmc ect.

Pierre, I pretty much agree with what you say, but I'm not sure that art. 411 NEC 2002 allows wiring to be concealed even though the manufacturer allows this. seems to be a contradictions

Allen, most of what you are doing seems okay except the park where you are fishing the wires between the cabinets.

Thanks everyone that responded

Greg
 
Re: Rules for Puck lights

Greg
Most of these line voltage under cabinet lights come UL listed to be assembled in the field. The ones I have seen have in-line molex connectors and hubs that all the lights connect to with field installable plugs in which we install after the lamp cord is cut to length. These are not open splices. 400.7(A)(2) permit such cord to be used for Wiring of Luminaires, 400.8 Only disallows cords from running on, in or through building finished surfaces, kitchen cabinets are not a building surface no more than a coffee table is that might have a built in lamp with its cord with a plug running through the cabinet part of it. Most of what you need is in UL green book which maybe I can try to do some research to see what the actual requirement for these lights are. Article 411 does not apply to line voltage Luminaires.

For the most part is UL has been listing these fixtures that the NEC does not specifically address as it does in 411 for ones under 30 volt,
As long as these units are installed as a plug in unit then the NEC does very little to address these, but when a electrician hard wires them into and electrical outlet box, than the NEC does much to address them.

I'll try to do some lookups on UL to see what I can find about them. I do know that these line voltage hockey puck fixtures are intended to be equipped with a two prong plug to be plugged into a receptacle only.

[ November 02, 2005, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]
 
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