rules for sizing grounding electrode conductor

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Dan67

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First of all, refering to table 250.66 and it's notes, there are lots of books which illustrate the proper use of note 1. What about note 2? Note 2. states, Where there are no service-entrance conductors, the grounding electrode conductor size shall be determined by the equivalent size of the largest service-entrance conductor required for the load to be served. Now look at the definition of Service-Entrance Conductors, Underground System The service conductors between the terminals of the service equipment and the point of connection to the service lateral. and see the FPN: Where service equipment is located outside the building walls, there may be no service-entrance conductors or they may be entirely outside the building.

Now suppose we have a 4-plex apartment building. There is a 600amp. rated service and 5 meter cans, with 5 200amp breakers for overcurrent protection.(1 for each apartment and a house panel.) It is mounted on an OUTSIDE wall. There is a copper water pipe entering the building. One could argue for the use of note 1. of table 250.66, or one could argue that note 2. could be used. Since the wires entering the building have gone through the first overcurrent protection, they are now feeders and not service-entrance conductors. Since the largest feeder entering the building is a 2/0 copper, a #4 copper could be used for going the the water pipe. I have heard electricians argue both sides of this. Some are using note 1. and going to the water pipe with a 2/0 copper. Does anyone out there have an opinion on this?
 
I bet this service has "Service Conductors" and it will be those conductors that must be used for the GEC size.

How does the power get to the 600 amp service?

The fact the service is outside the building does not automatically mean there are no 'Service Conductors'.
 
600 amps? A large 4-plex, plus electric heat.
What I get from the definitions, is that the service entrance conductors end at the first overcurrent protection. If you have an NEC handbook it illustrates this.
 
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If there are no service entrance conductors you use the calculated load and Table 310.16 to find the size that the service entrance cables would be required to be is they existed. You simply use this size and Table 250.66 to find the GEC size.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
If there are no service entrance conductors you use the calculated load and Table 310.16 to find the size that the service entrance cables would be required to be is they existed. You simply use this size and Table 250.66 to find the GEC size.

So, from my example, you are saying that a #4 cop. could be used?
 
Dan67,

For a 600 amp service, and without any information regarding the actual load, I would figure on 2 parallel sets of 350 kcmil Copper conductors.

350 Kcmil at 75 degrees is rated at 310 amps each parallel set.

The combined circular mil area of both parallel sets is 700 kcmil.

Based on 250.66 this service would require a 2/0 copper GEC.

Joe Villani
 
Joe Villani said:
Dan67,

For a 600 amp service, and without any information regarding the actual load, I would figure on 2 parallel sets of 350 kcmil Copper conductors.

350 Kcmil at 75 degrees is rated at 310 amps each parallel set.

The combined circular mil area of both parallel sets is 700 kcmil.

Based on 250.66 this service would require a 2/0 copper GEC.

Joe Villani

That is what I was heavily leaning toward, but can you see how the code can be interpreted to for using the #4? It should be made more clear. There should a code change for 2011 to refine some terms and provide a clear explaination.
 
Dan67 said:
That is what I was heavily leaning toward, but can you see how the code can be interpreted to for using the #4? It should be made more clear. There should a code change for 2011 to refine some terms and provide a clear explaination.
Yeah, but if you use #4, you'd have to run 5 of 'em.

Nevertheless, I believe most everything service related needs clarified!
 
Smart $ said:
Yeah, but if you use #4, you'd have to run 5 of 'em.

Nevertheless, I believe most everything service related needs clarified!

Thanks for the input. 5 #4's isn't such a sure thing either when you consider 310.4, or is it?
 
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