Running EGC seperate from a wall mounted ground bar to load

[W@ttson]

Hello,

Are there any violations in running an EGC from a wall mounted ground bar to a load sepearte from the feeder conductors? The feeder conductors are in a PVC conduit.

See sketch below for what I mean:

 

[HEYDOG]

Hello,

Are there any violations in running an EGC from a wall mounted ground bar to a load sepearte from the feeder conductors? The feeder conductors are in a PVC conduit.

See sketch below for what I mean:
View attachment 2565508

All conductors including equipment grounding conductors are required to be run in the same raceway! 300.3(b).

 

[tom baker]

Magnetic currents created in a ground fault normally cancel as they are in the same raceway or cable. In your case there would be a high impedance and the OCPD may not open. You can run up to 6 ft on the exterior of flex conduit, as an exception.

 

[W@ttson]

All conductors including equipment grounding conductors are required to be run in the same raceway! 300.3(b).

Yes this is the case normally, but what about (2) of 300.3(B):

(2) Grounding and Bonding Conductors.



Equipment grounding conductors shall be permitted to be installed outside a raceway or cable assembly where in accordance with the provisions of 250.130(C) for certain existing installations or in accordance with 250.134, Exception No. 2, for dc circuits. Equipment bonding conductors shall be permitted to be installed on the outside of raceways in accordance with 250.102(E).

 

[W@ttson]

Yes this is the case normally, but what about (2) of 300.3(B):

(2) Grounding and Bonding Conductors.



Equipment grounding conductors shall be permitted to be installed outside a raceway or cable assembly where in accordance with the provisions of 250.130(C) for certain existing installations or in accordance with 250.134, Exception No. 2, for dc circuits. Equipment bonding conductors shall be permitted to be installed on the outside of raceways in accordance with 250.102(E).

I guess the nuance is that it says "Equipment BONDING" conductor can be ran on the outside.

 

[tom baker]

I mentioned the 6 ft exception. It seems like you’re going to a lot of work to avoid the simple solution to pull in and equipment grounding conductor in your race ways.

 

[W@ttson]

I mentioned the 6 ft exception. It seems like you’re going to a lot of work to avoid the simple solution to pull in and equipment grounding conductor in your race ways.

Is that the 250.102(E)(2) paragrapgh?

 

[wwhitney]

300.3(B) Nonferrous wiring methods would allow the EGC to be outside the PVC conduit. At ferrous boxes you'd still need to comply with 300.20(B).

But I'm not aware of any general allowance to run that lone EGC as a bare of insulated conductor on its own; is there one? If not, for the separate EGC you'd need to use a cable method or run a separate non-ferrous raceway.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[jaggedben]

Yes this is the case normally, but what about (2) of 300.3(B):

(2) Grounding and Bonding Conductors.



Equipment grounding conductors shall be permitted to be installed outside a raceway or cable assembly where in accordance with the provisions of 250.130(C) for certain existing installations or in accordance with 250.134, Exception No. 2, for dc circuits. Equipment bonding conductors shall be permitted to be installed on the outside of raceways in accordance with 250.102(E).

Those exception are intended for things like, say, adding an EGC when you are replacing old two prong receptacles with 3 prong receptacles, and the old existing wiring is knob&tube or old cable without EGC. It's not valid when an EGC can be pulled in an existing raceway.

 

[W@ttson]

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[infinity]

I wouldn't call the connection from the equipment to the ground bar an EGC. It would be some type of bonding jumper. EGC's are listed in 250.118 and are run with or enclosing the circuit conductors.

250.118 Types of Equipment Grounding Conductors.
The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing the circuit conductors shall be one or more or a combination of the following:

 

[W@ttson]

I wouldn't call the connection from the equipment to the ground bar an EGC. It would be some type of bonding jumper. EGC's are listed in 250.118 and are run with or enclosing the circuit conductors.

Yeah I guess that’s the crux of it. By definition it can’t even be an EGC. It something else.

 

[petersonra]

I don't see any problem with running the extra conductor to the ground bar. I do have an issue with not running an EGC with the load conductors to the two loads. That's a requirement.

 

[infinity]

I don't see any problem with running the extra conductor to the ground bar. I do have an issue with not running an EGC with the load conductors to the two loads. That's a requirement.

I agree. You can exceed the EGC run with the branch circuit conductors requirement by running an additional bonding jumper if you want.

Why would someone want to not run the EGC in the first place?

 

[W@ttson]

I agree. You can exceed the EGC run with the branch circuit conductors requirement by running an additional bonding jumper if you want.

Why would someone want to not run the EGC in the first place?

I think it was an oversight by the installer for this particular install and it was easier to just tap to the ground bar next to it.

But I wanted to nail this down as sometimes there are existing conduits where fill is an issue. Wanted to get it concrete that EGC must be with feeders and there are no wonky exceptions that allow for it to be outside.

 

[infinity]

But I wanted to nail this down as sometimes there are existing conduits where fill is an issue. Wanted to get it concrete that EGC must be with feeders and there are no wonky exceptions that allow for it to be outside.

Got it.