S-Box Pop-Up Counter Receptacle Experience?

[marmathsen]

Hey All,

Curious if anyone has experience with this pop up counter receptacle. It's made by S-Box, can have a piece of counter material mounted to the top, and their documentation states it's UL approved for use in a kitchen. If any one has used it, how did it work out? Has any one used this brand at all? Any other concerns you all might see? Thanks!

Product Page

Brochure

Install Instructions

 

[curt swartz]

I didn't spend any time looking up any of its UL data but it definely would not meet NEC requirements for required receptacles. It connects via a cord and plug. Its basically a power strip.

 

[LarryFine]

What I found:

UL listed E359914. NEC splash tested and UL approved for use in kitchens and wet locations.

UL Listed E359914 1/2017, UL Splash Rated for kitchen and wet environments (IP55 rated)

The S-Box™pop-up sockets have passed the very latest N.E.C.tests for use in Kitchen Countertops. These extensive spill and splash tests were carried out independently by U.L. Laboratories and provide all S-Box™models with full “Certification for Use in Wet Areas” such as kitchen worktops and islands.

USL, CNL-Furniture Power Distribution Units,Model:S-BOX™POWER BOX 2 SOCKET TAMPER PROOF VARIANT ELECTRICAL RATING: 125 V ac, 15A and 20A, 60 Hz.*USL indicates investigation to the U.S. National Standard for Furniture Power Distribution Units, UL 962A, Second Edition, plus additional 0.5 gallon spill tests to allow use in furniture in Wet Areas (Kitchen and Bathroom)–NEC 406.5 (E) *CNL indicates investigation to Canadian National Standards C22.2 No.21-95, Cord Sets and Power Supply Cords.These devices are cord-connected furniture power distribution units consisting of a metal enclosure with receptacles.The units are provided with a Listed 15A, 125 V, 3-conductor grounding type supply cord

 

[marmathsen]

I didn't spend any time looking up any of its UL data but it definely would not meet NEC requirements for required receptacles. It connects via a cord and plug. Its basically a power strip.

There's the rub, thank you!

Rob G

 

[marmathsen]

I didn't spend any time looking up any of its UL data but it definely would not meet NEC requirements for required receptacles. It connects via a cord and plug. Its basically a power strip.

Ok I need someone to school me.

Clearly any required receptacles need to be hard wired. But try as I might, I have been unable to find that specific requirement in chapters 1 through 4. Can someone please list the exact article.

My code skills have failed me :-(

Rob G

 

[LarryFine]

Clearly any required receptacles need to be hard wired. But try as I might, I have been unable to find that specific requirement in chapters 1 through 4. Can someone please list the exact article.

How about 400.12(1)?

 

[Fred B]

How about 400.12(1)?

Not sure, I believe the flexible cord use might fit with the exception that references 368.56(B) and the criteria there found. Thus their listing mention of 6ft cord trying to appear to comply to that section. (Maybe).

 

[marmathsen]

I guess I was assuming I would see something (likely in 210 Part III) along the lines of "the receptacles required in this section shall be permanently installed" or "attachment plug connected receptacle devices shall not be considered to meet the requirements of this section".

I'm assuming it's in the code somewhere, otherwise someone would be free to use plug strips as a means to fulfill the requirements of 210.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

You need to dig deeper into the listings and when it was listed. The only pop-up assembly that is actually listed for use in a kitchen counter under the 2017 and 2020 codes is the one made by Hubbell.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

What I found:

UL listed E359914. NEC splash tested and UL approved for use in kitchens and wet locations.

UL Listed E359914 1/2017, UL Splash Rated for kitchen and wet environments (IP55 rated)

The S-Box™pop-up sockets have passed the very latest N.E.C.tests for use in Kitchen Countertops. These extensive spill and splash tests were carried out independently by U.L. Laboratories and provide all S-Box™models with full “Certification for Use in Wet Areas” such as kitchen worktops and islands.

USL, CNL-Furniture Power Distribution Units,Model:S-BOX™POWER BOX 2 SOCKET TAMPER PROOF VARIANT ELECTRICAL RATING: 125 V ac, 15A and 20A, 60 Hz.*USL indicates investigation to the U.S. National Standard for Furniture Power Distribution Units, UL 962A, Second Edition, plus additional 0.5 gallon spill tests to allow use in furniture in Wet Areas (Kitchen and Bathroom)–NEC 406.5 (E) *CNL indicates investigation to Canadian National Standards C22.2 No.21-95, Cord Sets and Power Supply Cords.These devices are cord-connected furniture power distribution units consisting of a metal enclosure with receptacles.The units are provided with a Listed 15A, 125 V, 3-conductor grounding type supply cord

A listing as a "furniture power distribution unit" does not comply with the requirement in 406.5(E). That requires a specific listing for installation in countertops. The fact that it has passed the spill test for countertops does not change what it is listed as.

The item in this thread, listed as a furniture power distribution unit, can only be installed in accordance with 406.5(H). It cannot be installed in countertops or work surfaces.

This is an issue with a number of manufacturers saying their product can be used or has passed the tests required for a countertop receptacle assembly, but not actually being listed as such. Often when you see terms like "passes the XXXX test" or complies with "UL XXXX", the product has not been listed for that application.

 

[wwhitney]

This is an issue with a number of manufacturers saying their product can be used or has passed the tests required for a countertop receptacle assembly, but not actually being listed as such. Often when you see terms like "passes the XXXX test" or complies with "UL XXXX", the product has not been listed for that application.

So are the manufacturers doing the test themselves when they say that, and they don't want to pay the listing agency to do the test to get the listing? Or is the situation more complicated than that?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So are the manufacturers doing the test themselves when they say that, and they don't want to pay the listing agency to do the test to get the listing? Or is the situation more complicated than that?

Cheers, Wayne

In my opinion it is misleading and intentionally fraudulent information published for marketing purposes.

If they want to sell a product for an application that the code requires the use of a listed product for, then then need to get the listing.

 

[marmathsen]

How long does it take for a listing to be granted I wonder?

I could see where they either don't realize the conflict, or that they are waiting for UL to complete their process.

I guess I'm curious why they would intentionally seek and be granted a listing for "Furniture Power Distribution Units" when they obviously are targeting their product for kitchen countertops.

 

[marmathsen]

A listing as a "furniture power distribution unit" does not comply with the requirement in 406.5(E). That requires a specific listing for installation in countertops. The fact that it has passed the spill test for countertops does not change what it is listed as.

The item in this thread, listed as a furniture power distribution unit, can only be installed in accordance with 406.5(H). It cannot be installed in countertops or work surfaces.

This is an issue with a number of manufacturers saying their product can be used or has passed the tests required for a countertop receptacle assembly, but not actually being listed as such. Often when you see terms like "passes the XXXX test" or complies with "UL XXXX", the product has not been listed for that application.

So I guess coming back to a previous question of mine, would it be possible for a product to be LISTED for countertop applications AND be cord and plug connected? If so, could that then satisfy the requirements for receptacles in 210?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So I guess coming back to a previous question of mine, would it be possible for a product to be LISTED for countertop applications AND be cord and plug connected? If so, could that then satisfy the requirements for receptacles in 210?

NO

 

[marmathsen]

NO

Which question are you answering NO to?

Are you saying that the requirements for listing a countertop receptacle exclude cord and plug connected devices?

I was trying to find specifically what prevents the use of plug strips (and the like) to satisfy required receptacles. Couldn't find it in the NEC but I came across a Q&A that Mike Holt wrote in EC&M where he clarifies that NFPA 70 is an installation standard, not a product standard. So am I to take that to say that the NEC has nothing to say about devices plugged into receptacles?

Code Q&A

Q. Is there a section in the Code that restricts the use of power strips? A. No. The NEC is an installation standard, not a product standard. The use of listed relocatable power...

www.ecmweb.com

What about required lighting outlets? Would off the shelf cord and plug shop lights not be sufficient to comply with the requirement?

HELP! I'M STUCK IN A RABBIT HOLE!

-Rob G

Rob G

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Which question are you answering NO to?

Are you saying that the requirements for listing a countertop receptacle exclude cord and plug connected devices?

I was trying to find specifically what prevents the use of plug strips (and the like) to satisfy required receptacles. Couldn't find it in the NEC but I came across a Q&A that Mike Holt wrote in EC&M where he clarifies that NFPA 70 is an installation standard, not a product standard. So am I to take that to say that the NEC has nothing to say about devices plugged into receptacles?

Code Q&A

Q. Is there a section in the Code that restricts the use of power strips? A. No. The NEC is an installation standard, not a product standard. The use of listed relocatable power...

www.ecmweb.com

What about required lighting outlets? Would off the shelf cord and plug shop lights not be sufficient to comply with the requirement?

HELP! I'M STUCK IN A RABBIT HOLE!

-Rob G

Rob G

I quoted the text that I said NO to, as a way of making it very clear what the NO was responding to.

Yes I am saying that. The listing requirements for countertop and work surface receptacle assemblies require a hard wired connection. The listing requirement for a "furniture power distribution unit" permits a cord and plug connection, but that assembly is not permitted to be installed in a work surface or countertop.

The use of the cord to supply required receptacle outlets is prohibited by 400.12(1). The instructions for the shop lights typically very clearly say that they are not to be permanently installed, making then unsuitable for use as any code required lighting. They often come with hooks and chains to provide a non-permenant installation method. Same with power strips that have keyholes for supporting. It is not permenantly instaled if it does not require a tool to uninstall.

 

[marmathsen]

I quoted the text that I said NO to, as a way of making it very clear what the NO was responding to.

Yes I am saying that. The listing requirements for countertop and work surface receptacle assemblies require a hard wired connection. The listing requirement for a "furniture power distribution unit" permits a cord and plug connection, but that assembly is not permitted to be installed in a work surface or countertop.

The use of the cord to supply required receptacle outlets is prohibited by 400.12(1). The instructions for the shop lights typically very clearly say that they are not to be permanently installed, making then unsuitable for use as any code required lighting. They often come with hooks and chains to provide a non-permenant installation method. Same with power strips that have keyholes for supporting. It is not permenantly instaled if it does not require a tool to uninstall.

Thank you Don. This was the clarification I was struggling to find.

Rob

Rob G

 

[hbiss]

Yes I am saying that. The listing requirements for countertop and work surface receptacle assemblies require a hard wired connection. The listing requirement for a "furniture power distribution unit" permits a cord and plug connection, but that assembly is not permitted to be installed in a work surface or countertop.

So, does the manufacturer just not know any better or would it be too much to produce a compliant hard wired receptacle? Seems to me that they have a really nice product that would sell if it were listed.

-Hal

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So, does the manufacturer just not know any better or would it be too much to produce a compliant hard wired receptacle? Seems to me that they have a really nice product that would sell if it were listed.

-Hal

There must be some issue with getting the listing for a countertop receptacle assembly as there is only one so listed. No idea what that may be.