Safety Harness and Equipment
- Thread starter wireddd
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bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Safety Harness and Equipment
I don't know anything about this specific condition, but the last fall protection class I took described the force impact on the body is equivalent to the force of Mike Tyson punching you square in the chest.
Good thing a harness can't bite!
I don't know anything about this specific condition, but the last fall protection class I took described the force impact on the body is equivalent to the force of Mike Tyson punching you square in the chest.
Good thing a harness can't bite!
Re: Safety Harness and Equipment
Go here for more on death by harness.
This is a very real issue and we have addressed it in our safety program.
Roger
Go here for more on death by harness.
This is a very real issue and we have addressed it in our safety program.
Roger
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jsinclair
Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Re: Safety Harness and Equipment
Death by Suspension is a real danger to anyone who finds themselves in a free hanging position after a fall. I work in the wireless telecom industry where tower climbers and controlled descent operations are common place everyday. I am by no means the expert on this subject, but I have had quite a bit of training in the danger. The long and short of the story is that a person suspended by their harness after a fall has about 10 - 12 mins before permanent injury or death occurs. Injury and death occurs as the brain receives less and less oxygenated blood.
Our company has set up very rigid safety guidelines for any work requiring safety harnesses. One of the provisions is that rescue equipment be in place before any work can begin. All safety lines are rigged and rescue climbers are in position in case they are needed.
I will try and get our safety guy on here to talk more intelligently about this subject if any one is interested.
John
Death by Suspension is a real danger to anyone who finds themselves in a free hanging position after a fall. I work in the wireless telecom industry where tower climbers and controlled descent operations are common place everyday. I am by no means the expert on this subject, but I have had quite a bit of training in the danger. The long and short of the story is that a person suspended by their harness after a fall has about 10 - 12 mins before permanent injury or death occurs. Injury and death occurs as the brain receives less and less oxygenated blood.
Our company has set up very rigid safety guidelines for any work requiring safety harnesses. One of the provisions is that rescue equipment be in place before any work can begin. All safety lines are rigged and rescue climbers are in position in case they are needed.
I will try and get our safety guy on here to talk more intelligently about this subject if any one is interested.
John
tonyi
Senior Member
Re: Safety Harness and Equipment
I would seem to me that a better harness design is the answer.
I've made 850+ skydives so far, about 1/4 of those were where I opened my main at ~13,000' and just flew around for about 20 minutes enjoying the scenery before landing. I don't even have tingly toes or any stiffness after such a flight.
In the whole history of parachuting, I've never heard of anything like this happening to anyone under canopy. Even lower openings in the 2,500' range frequently involve a ride of 5 minutes or more.
Parachute harnesses have main supporting lift webs going down the sides, webbing loops around your legs, "X" crisscross web across your back, and a chest strap going to the main lift webs. Suspension is typically at the shoulder points, but can also be at the belly on the lift webs for something like a chest mounted reserve (obsolete for sport parachuting these days)
I would seem to me that a better harness design is the answer.
I've made 850+ skydives so far, about 1/4 of those were where I opened my main at ~13,000' and just flew around for about 20 minutes enjoying the scenery before landing. I don't even have tingly toes or any stiffness after such a flight.
In the whole history of parachuting, I've never heard of anything like this happening to anyone under canopy. Even lower openings in the 2,500' range frequently involve a ride of 5 minutes or more.
Parachute harnesses have main supporting lift webs going down the sides, webbing loops around your legs, "X" crisscross web across your back, and a chest strap going to the main lift webs. Suspension is typically at the shoulder points, but can also be at the belly on the lift webs for something like a chest mounted reserve (obsolete for sport parachuting these days)
Re: Safety Harness and Equipment
I was an ironworker in the 60's and fall protection was just that, to stop you from falling. It was not meant to last long or even not cause its own injuries. In the 80's i was a tree climber and would/could work all day in a tree climber's saddle, a slightly stiffer version of the lower half of today's body harness. I prefer the weight point about belly button (at least when I was slimmer), not the back as it leaves the fallen without any ability to reach rope/line. Also easier to get swing motion going.
bowline before prusik. Prusik works well with mountain climbing line, but a modified tree climber's knot (similar) is better for manila or nylon (safety line, not stretchable).
I suggest that the workers actually try their safety equipment out, someone holding the rope (with a turn around a high pipe) while the worker lifts their legs, or leans into the rope while it's held taut.
Falls into harnesses and saddles from any distance may cause internal injuries, depending on the person, type of fall, weight, angle, and health. Even the best harness and great health may not avert an injury. Best not to fall. Some workers are chasing their tools into the fall.
i've left my fingerprints in some famous hard iron.
paul
I was an ironworker in the 60's and fall protection was just that, to stop you from falling. It was not meant to last long or even not cause its own injuries. In the 80's i was a tree climber and would/could work all day in a tree climber's saddle, a slightly stiffer version of the lower half of today's body harness. I prefer the weight point about belly button (at least when I was slimmer), not the back as it leaves the fallen without any ability to reach rope/line. Also easier to get swing motion going.
bowline before prusik. Prusik works well with mountain climbing line, but a modified tree climber's knot (similar) is better for manila or nylon (safety line, not stretchable).
I suggest that the workers actually try their safety equipment out, someone holding the rope (with a turn around a high pipe) while the worker lifts their legs, or leans into the rope while it's held taut.
Falls into harnesses and saddles from any distance may cause internal injuries, depending on the person, type of fall, weight, angle, and health. Even the best harness and great health may not avert an injury. Best not to fall. Some workers are chasing their tools into the fall.
i've left my fingerprints in some famous hard iron.
paul
Re: Safety Harness and Equipment
Awwt,
That knot you pictured is off. The knot in the picture at the top of your link is what I was talking about. It is also the "climbers knot" as taught to me by a buddy in the tree trimming biz.
You can easily tie it if you take a peice of cord and tie it co it makes a loop. Then wrap the loop as iilustrated here:
This knot can be tied into your saftey line and slid easily up or down. You can place your foot into the loop and stand up. You could use a caribiner and to prusiks and walk up or down the rope.
You can also push down slightly on the prusik under load and you will slide down the rope. take your hand off and you will stop. I have done this extensivly over the sides of highrises.
Awwt,
That knot you pictured is off. The knot in the picture at the top of your link is what I was talking about. It is also the "climbers knot" as taught to me by a buddy in the tree trimming biz.
You can easily tie it if you take a peice of cord and tie it co it makes a loop. Then wrap the loop as iilustrated here:
This knot can be tied into your saftey line and slid easily up or down. You can place your foot into the loop and stand up. You could use a caribiner and to prusiks and walk up or down the rope.
You can also push down slightly on the prusik under load and you will slide down the rope. take your hand off and you will stop. I have done this extensivly over the sides of highrises.
Re: Safety Harness and Equipment
the prusik can be hard to tie for an untrained person, as well as any safety knot tied where one's own life is dependent on it. Usually there is no one there to say "that's it".
The modified prusik can be tied with one hand. It is tied with the long bitter end of the bowline (that supports the harness, bosun's chair, saddle). The other long line leaves the bowline and travels over the life support (branch, beam, caribinier, whatever) and back down to be tied to the bitter end with the prusik. it is a long loop with two knots, one a bowline supporting the harness and the other, the prusik tied within short reaching distance from the bowline.
The idea is that the knot will not slip unless it is straightened by hand as weight bends the line and holds the loop fixed. That is the theory. In reality different types of rope behave differently.
As a climber, I tied the knot with two turns below and one above, instead of two below and two above. I found it gave me more control both rising and descending. I tied it tight. I have seen the prusik let a person drop twenty feet before they could let it go, and that makes a really hard stop on some rope. if the prusik is tied too loose it won't run, and if too loose, it runs too fast. And i still believe that safety lines should be practiced until confidence is established.
Sorry i do not have the access to what it takes to uplift pictures.
paul
the prusik can be hard to tie for an untrained person, as well as any safety knot tied where one's own life is dependent on it. Usually there is no one there to say "that's it".
The modified prusik can be tied with one hand. It is tied with the long bitter end of the bowline (that supports the harness, bosun's chair, saddle). The other long line leaves the bowline and travels over the life support (branch, beam, caribinier, whatever) and back down to be tied to the bitter end with the prusik. it is a long loop with two knots, one a bowline supporting the harness and the other, the prusik tied within short reaching distance from the bowline.
The idea is that the knot will not slip unless it is straightened by hand as weight bends the line and holds the loop fixed. That is the theory. In reality different types of rope behave differently.
As a climber, I tied the knot with two turns below and one above, instead of two below and two above. I found it gave me more control both rising and descending. I tied it tight. I have seen the prusik let a person drop twenty feet before they could let it go, and that makes a really hard stop on some rope. if the prusik is tied too loose it won't run, and if too loose, it runs too fast. And i still believe that safety lines should be practiced until confidence is established.
Sorry i do not have the access to what it takes to uplift pictures.
paul
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